Elijah Mohammad
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Oct-14-2005
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Message #113180 posted by Elijah Mohammad (Info) March 10, 2008 06:39:16 ET
In Reply to: Re: Torog Torog Torog...And everyone else in this talk posted by Torog (Info) March 07, 2008 05:57:49 ET
Hey Torog,
"From what I read,it seems that yer claiming to be muslim now ?"
I think that the term Muslim is my favorite new descriptor. I have come to believe that the Quran IS the Word of God, while the various books of the Bible, along with many other non-cannonical and extra-cannonical books from a few different religions, prophets, etc, CONTAIN the Word of God....the Bible being one of the largest collections of writings CONTAINING large portions of the Word of God.
"If so,that would mean that yer a westernized muslim,not an over-sea's muslim..there's a whole lot of difference betweeen the 2. When I speak badly of muslims-it's the over-sea's muslims that I talk about mostly,the one's who're loyal to their sects and tribes and take their marching orders from. I too,can claim dissassociation from those who claim to be Christian,but bombed abortion clinic's with un-expected collateral damage and say that they ain't Christians. But it doesn't accomplish a thing,if I just denounce them,they must be stopped as well."
Much of what you say here makes sense. I would not, however, neither would I have, previous to my further understandings of late, ever called myself "Western." I am, and have been since before I accepted the Quran, and believed mainly the Bible, against Western ideals in general. To clarify terms, by Western, I mean part of the Idol described in the Book of Daniel....namely, of the toes on the feet of the idol....the Holy Roman Empire....the ten Germanic tribes (minus three that were genocidally/politically/religiously exterminated, plus the Roman Catholic Church, which is Paganized Christianity.), which took over the world, and are now running it through the UN, along with a powerful ally....the Zionist International Bankers (The moneylenders).....these people, for the past few hundred years, have, hand in hand, proceeded to destroy the world, and plunder its resources, along with select agents and co-conspirators from all nations and peoples, who have been, and are, extravagantly bribed.....and they have proceeded to exploit, step on, and destroy the people in the world. Not to say that this was not destined to happen....it was....it is all part of the plan, and the big picture....but to be a part of this horrendous beast is certainly no good thing for one's own individual soul.....nor to accept it as a master or idol above the Most High God. I certainly would not now, nor would I have before believing the Quran, describe myself as Western. I am a believer in the Most High God and am in the diaspora, in the Lion's den, the belly of the Beast...the valley of the shadow of death...but I fear no evil, the rod and staff of the Most High comfort me.
"If you have dedicated yerself to the path of Islam,does not Islam it self say that we cannot be brothers of any sort ? Much less ,in Christ..whom Islam considers to be no more than an enlightened prophet and certainly not God's only begotten Son."
In that, you are wrong....unlike in Christianity, in Islam, it is believed that one can be considered a Christian and a Muslim at the same time. It is believed that there are people called Christians and Jews, as well as Muslims, and others not called any such thing who believe in the oneness of God, and the prophets, and do not despise prophecy, who pray often, and do good works, believing in the last day, the judgement of God....and they are all brothers and sisters in the Annointing of God (In Greek, "Christ.") One who is annointed is Mashiach, Christ, Messiah....King David was also known as Christ....as were all "Annointed" (by the Holy Oil, and the choice and inspiration of God) Kings of Israel....as well as Prophets and Priests. In the Quran and the Bible, it is made known that there are definitely different degrees of Prophethood/Sainthood. That is manifested by living in holiness, and in prophecy. Yahshuah Christ was one of the most Holy and Prophetically grounded of the Saints/Prophets.....to him is given the Highest blessings from God, to reign over the world in righteousness, destroy the Kingdom of the Antichrist, and bring in fully the blessings of the Kingdom of God on earth to the believers. He is the foremost Christ who will sit on David's throne. To that I am sure we agree, that he (Yahshuah (Jesus) Christ) will return and reign in a righteous kingdom, on David's throne. And all who are annointed with the same Spirit of God that he is (Who are brothers and sisters in "Christ", who are the "Annointed" of God) will reign with him as Kings and Priests.
"I'm curious,are ya planning yer required pilgrammage to Mecca soon ?"
If I can ever do it, I will. That's how it goes.
"Also,how is it,that you can pray to a stone in a foreign land,5 times a day ?"
I don't, nor can I "pray to a stone." If you are in Church, facing towards the podium (which they might call the altar there, depending on the kind of church), and you are closing your eyes praying to God...are you praying to the wood of the podium/altar? Hopefully not. If you are like most people, you are not praying to the wood...you are praying to God....you are only facing the direction you are, because it is the common direction your congregation faces while in church (congregation)....especially while praying....why? You may want to examine that for yourself (I can and have drawn my own conclusions). The reason you face towards the Kaabah (which happens to have a special kind of stone)...not unlike stone that was required for Israelite altars in the Law of Moses, and in the manner of the way Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, along with Noah, made altars for sacrifice and prayers and thanksgivings to God...the reason you face the Kaabah is because, like in Church, it is the common direction your congregation faces while in prayer? How is this different from what is done in Churches? Well, in each individual church, there is division, because they are all gathering around their own individual altars....remember one of the main sins of the Israelites? They didn't want to have one common congregation and temple....they wanted to build their own altars, to worship God on their own, in their own way. Something like Churches. The thing about facing the Kaabah that makes it distinct is that it is like having one temple in Jerusalem....it is the affirmation that there is really only One God, and that there is really only one group of people who collectively worship God in this way....those who are Abraham's children....whether figuratively or literally. It was with Abraham that the division of the tribes of the children of men was made....the monotheists on one side, and the polytheists on the other. Those with Abraham being the Monotheists. The Kaabah is the main place of worship that was established by Abraham to gather with close fellows in this worship (people in his tribe), and worship the One Most High God, and offer praises, and remember that there is One God, and those who are his worshippers are made one in submission to him...the humble/meek....("Blessed are the Meek, for they shall inherit the earth." Jesus.)....I could go into the relevance of facing the Kaabah much. There is also Mohammad.....He was empowered by God to reestablish this Monotheistic worship in the very place it was first set up as a beacon amongst the darkness of the Pagans. It had been used by the Pagans for untold centuries for Pagan worship (much like the Jewish temple was desecrated and used in such a way by the Greeks, but for a much shorter time period), but Mohammad (peacefully) reconquered it, and reestablished the worship of his ancestors, the originators of the tribes and people who are Monotheists, Abraham, Sarah, Hagar, Isaac, Ishmael, Israel, and their descendants who kept the faith, and those who learned it from them. Thus, there was, once more, one center of Monotheistic Abrahamic worship....one temple for the one congregation of Monotheists who are faithful. By praying in that direction, we acknowledge that we are all in this one Church, the Congregation of the Most High God, The God of Abraham, Sarah, Hagar, Isaac, Ishmael, Israel, Joseph, Moses, David, Job, Noah, Enoch, Adam, Isaiah, Elijah, John the Baptist, Mary, Jesus, Peter, James, and Mohammad....amongst others, of course.
"I still have clear memories of drinking coffee in the morning,listening to the morning prayers being called out and having to wait until they were done,before we could head out to the drilling rig..yer world and their world,is wholly different.."
That would be awesome, not to have to worry about being harassed about praying often and regularly.
"I expect you to condemn the violence done in the name of Islam and Allah,but the muslims over-seas mostly condone such. However,there's some good news to report-more and more of em are starting to think like you,some are even turning to Christ,instead of Allah and are even less supportive of the violence."
I certainly do not support any violence that kills innocent people, or that is wreckless of the lives of innocent people....foremost among these offenders being Israel, the United States of America, and "Great" Britain. I also condemn the actions of anyone who calls themselves a Muslim or a Christian, or anything else who does these kinds of things. However, I do not condemn attacks against oppressors, attacks that are well considerate of innocent lives, and are carried out to end their cruel and violent oppression. For example, let's say you happen to have your sword on you, and you come up to a house and hear a woman being raped....you rush in, and find her being brutally attacked by five men....you act quickly, and kill them all with your sword. I would not condemn such violence, and I would consider it to be righteous violence in the path of Godliness.....wouldn't you?
"I'm curious,has yer imam issued a fatwa against violence done in the name of Islam ? Also,if you knew a muslim was planning to commit violence against a non-muslim,would you report them or you would think that the un-repentant,deserve whatever they have coming ?"
First of all, as to the Imam...I do not have an Imam as of yet. So far, I have seen nothing in the Quran about Imam's. I have found some groups I agree much with, however. As to the violence done in the name of Islam, I refer you to the answer in the statement right before this one, which begins: "I certainly do not support any violence that kills innocent people...."
"Have a good one ..."
You too.
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