Elijah Mohammad
Registered on
Oct-14-2005
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Message #113292 posted by Elijah Mohammad (Info) March 14, 2008 14:50:33 ET
In Reply to: Re: Torog posted by Torog (Info) March 14, 2008 06:06:33 ET
"Howdy Elijah,
I was surprised to see this and yer accusation towards me:
"1 Samuel 15:3 "Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.""
Alright, here is one verse. Why not just skip right to the one and only verse that has what you were looking for, instead of posting other verses that do not fit the criteria of evidence? But then, I am not a Christian who believes that the whole Bible is the literal word of God. I think those two words that you found in that verse that would prove the God of the Bible's command of this awful order are one of the numerous insertions of Pagan corruption inserted into the text by Pagans who had control of it in different time periods. This is probably one of the verses that so adversely affects Torog with his desire to see innocent people and babies be killed by American and other troops with America, as well as by Nuclear Weapons."
Let me make it perfectly clear to you-I do NOT want truly innocent people hurt or killed,nor do I base any desire or want to attack the enemy,based on that particular verse or any other verse-that ain't how my mind works-I see a task or mission to be done,from the mindset of a soldier-tempered with the mercy of a Christian,and as a Texan that won't git bogged down in excuses and apologies and appeasement."
SEE! That's EXACTLY to what I am referring there. Who's to say that if the people in that above mentioned verse really did what the verse says they did, and thought that God sanctioned the violence, and that it was necessary to accomplish divinely ordained objectives, that they did not approach their task of killing babies in exactly the same way you speak of...."from the mindset of a soldier-tempered with the mercy of a Christian,and as a Texan that won't git bogged down in excuses and apologies and appeasement." Just substitute the word "Christian" for "Believer," and the word "Texan," for "Israelite" and you have the exact same thing. Torog, what I am saying is that you are at the very least, subconsciously affected by verses like this, and leaders who agree with verses like this.
It is apparent that you are fully willing to accept as necessary and right, the slaughter of babies and other innocent people by soldiers in the line of duty (trying to accomplish their objectives). Do you deny that?
"The arab-muslim world,would only bring about a new Dark Ages(if they won) and that is why I say that when it comes down to it-if we must-then we have no choice but to utterly annihilate them so that freedom will survive. The same is true for the commies,be it China,Russia or North Korea. You think that we can just play games with these above mentioned,that they will simply relinquish their insidious plans of conquest,that if we just kow-tow,prostrate and appease,that everything will be hunky-dory...Not !"
I understand your misgivings about absolute pacifism, Torog, and I share them....however, I do not understand why you think it is necessary to attack other people's homelands in a way that innocent people's lives are routinely taken. Why not save the battle for the battlefield? Why not save up a mean punch only for those who are approaching to invade our land? There is no way that any nation could currently invade the United States without having all of their soldiers be nuked and completely destroyed before they got close. Why not simply adopt this strategy, instead of sending our military abroad, why not focus on defending our homeland, and let other people defend their own homelands (unless we are truly willing to completely lay down our lives to help them, by using methods that do not inadvertently kill innocent people). It would be better for a soldier to die trying to attack the oppressor with inferior weapons, if it means that an innocent life that would have been taken at his hands will be spared. Do you also forget the miraculous help of God? It is not superior military technology, or superiority of numbers that wins battles, it is the help of the Most High God. If you believe the scriptures, and if you have had any experience personally with the help and protection of God on those who do his will, you should know this.
"I'd rather pretend to threaten the use of a nuke and catch all the rats leaving the sinking ship-than actually use one..I don't want the earth and peoples poisoned,I just want to cut the head off of the various snakes and liberate those whom they brutally oppress and give those folks a chance to rise up and be at least as blessed as I !"
So then, threatening, and TERRORising innocent people is justifable to you? How does that make you any different from the people you condemn and call "TERRORists" for the same reasons?
"What's so wrong with that ? Is it acceptable to God and Jesus,to look the other way,when it comes to folks who are brutally oppressed ? That they are simply stuck with their lot in life ?
Have a good one ..."
No, it is not acceptable to simply look the other way. It is also not acceptable, however, to use means whereby you yourself terrorise, injure, and take the lives of those you are claiming to try to help while in the process of trying to kill their oppressors. It's all about MEANS, Torog. We're not talking about readiness to rescue the innocent from evil oppressors here, Torog....you and I both agree on the neccesity of that....what we are talking about is the MEANS of doing so. A rescue is not a rescue when you kill those you are meant to be rescuing. If somebody has a cancerous tumor, and you want to get to the tumor and be rid of the tumor as quickly as possible, to save the life of the person with it before the tumor grows too big and kills them, it is completely illogical to use a chainsaw. Sure, you are getting to, and removing the problem quickly and completely....but at the same time, you are defeating the purpose, because you yourself would become a new problem that is even worse. Saddam killed tens of thousands of civillians in Iraq in the 20 or more years of his presidency....the United States and pals killed hundreds of thousands to millions in only 15 years. They're using a chainsaw to try to remove a tumor....it's not right. Of course, there are other motives than the salvation of the Iraqi people....thus, it is not as innocent as stupidity on the part of our leaders....it is malice.
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