Elijah Mohammad
Registered on
Oct-14-2005
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Message #113395 posted by Elijah Mohammad (Info) March 17, 2008 19:00:41 ET
In Reply to: Re: Torog posted by Torog (Info) March 16, 2008 07:35:06 ET
"Howdy Elijah,
You ask:
"It is apparent that you are fully willing to accept as necessary and right, the slaughter of babies and other innocent people by soldiers in the line of duty (trying to accomplish their objectives). Do you deny that? "
I can never accept the deaths of innocents,but I know that it will always happen in times of war..and even if we surrendered to the enemy,there ain't guarantee that they won't keep on killing innocents."
So, in other words, you accept it as right and necessary for our soldiers to use methods whereby they will certainly kill babies and innocent people, such as bombing, and fighting with guns and artillery in civillian areas?
"I see 2 things going on here from you,one-yer hinting that all soldiers are 'baby-killers' and 2-you seem to have a disconnect going on in yer brain-when it comes to holding the enemy accountable for their actions-which always puts the innocent in harm's way."
Oh no, that's where you're wrong Torog. I don't support ANYBODY killing innocent babies for ANY reason....even if that reason is to try to eliminate an evil enemy. I don't support putting them at huge risk by using inaccurate warfare methods either. Whether it's abortion doctors, Al-Qaeda (if they really do exist, which I doubt), Hamas, Israel, China, or the United States of America. And another thing, ALL SOLDIERS ARE BABY KILLERS, Torog. Unless they have no clue that that happens because of they and their buddies' actions, for some reason, and as soon as they find out, they refuse to help that effort in any way, and quit the military. Under law, isn't somebody who aids a murderer, knowing what they are doing, also guilty of murder? Can you realistically claim that there are US troops who don't know that babies are killed in bombings and shellings of towns? If they know, and they continue to support it, THEY ARE JUST AS GUILTY AS THOSE WHO DROPPED THE BOMBS, AND THOSE WHO ISSUED THE ORDERS. Under the terrorism laws of GW and friends, they, and pretty much all world leaders, and all military personnell and police worldwide are guilty of TERRORISM...the penalty is life in prison or death.
"You go on:
"I understand your misgivings about absolute pacifism, Torog, and I share them....however, I do not understand why you think it is necessary to attack other people's homelands in a way that innocent people's lives are routinely taken. Why not save the battle for the battlefield? Why not save up a mean punch only for those who are approaching to invade our land? There is no way that any nation could currently invade the United States without having all of their soldiers be nuked and completely destroyed before they got close. Why not simply adopt this strategy, instead of sending our military abroad, why not focus on defending our homeland, and let other people defend their own homelands (unless we are truly willing to completely lay down our lives to help them, by using methods that do not inadvertently kill innocent people). It would be better for a soldier to die trying to attack the oppressor with inferior weapons, if it means that an innocent life that would have been taken at his hands will be spared. Do you also forget the miraculous help of God? It is not superior military technology, or superiority of numbers that wins battles, it is the help of the Most High God. If you believe the scriptures, and if you have had any experience personally with the help and protection of God on those who do his will, you should know this."
I wish that we could have conducted operations on a set battleground,but the enemy that we're fightin,don't believe in doing that,instead-they hide themselves amongst civilians so that the innocent will be killed and so that folks like you-will denounce their own country and troops and not hold them accountable-in the least."
You're missing the whole point here, Torog. I posted about how hard it would be to control the US without the consent of the majority of the population....I meant that example to apply to any nation or people as well. If the large majority of a populace REALLY doesn't want a certain government, they will overthrow it...period. It is not our responsibility. If allies request our help in keeping an enemy at bay....sure, that is something we can do strictly on the battlefield, without endangering innocent lives. If a powerful foreign nation occupies another weaker nation with too much force for them to handle......that, also, is something we can help with. We can specifically target their war machines only, and send in our troops with small arms to handle the fighters.
"If we adopted isolationism,as you suggest,then the rest of the Free World,would quickly fall under the sandals of the arabs and the boots of the commies-far more innocent lives will be lost from such a path,than confronting the evil and vanquishing it."
WHEN DID I SUGGEST WE ADOPT ISOLATIONISM? I CLEARY SAID THAT I DON'T ADVOCATE ISOLATIONISM. I ONLY ADVOCATE NOT ATTACKING CIVILLIAN AREAS WITH WEAPONS THAT ARE KNOWN IN THESE CASES TO ROUTINELY KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE. AS FAR AS I REMEMBER, THE ARABS ARE NOT IN THE PROCESS OF CONQUERING, NEITHER HAVE THEY BEEN FOR A LONG TIME....ADDITIONALLY, LOCAL POPULACES THAT ARE AGAINST THE COMMIES ALSO HAVE HAD MUCH SUCCESS DRIVING THEM OUT ON THEIR OWN...SUCH AS IN AFGHANISTAN, WHEN OSAMA BIN LADEN AND ASSOCIATES DROVE OUT THE SOVIETS. THE ONLY PEOPLE I SEE CONQUERING, OPPRESSING, AND OCCUPYING COUNTRIES OTHER THAN THEIR OWN NOWADAYS ARE AMERICA AND ISRAEL. IF YOU WANT TO CURE OPPRESSION BY PEOPLE'S OWN GOVERNMENTS AND CIVILLIANS...WELL, START AT HOME FIRST...THERE'S PLENTY OF OPPRESSION IN AMERICA TO WORRY ABOUT...IF WE WOULD STOP ADDING TO OTHER PEOPLE'S PROBLEMS, THEN MAYBE THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO BETTER DEAL WITH THEIR OWN LOCAL OPPRESSION AS WELL....INSTEAD OF HAVING TO FOCUS ON FOREIGN OCCUPIERS.
"I believe that God helps those who help themselves-which is why we cannot afford to stand-by and allow evil to fester and grow in strength,strength that will take even more innocent lives."
EXACTLY....SO WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR? ACCORDING TO YOUR IDEOLOGY YOU ESPOUSE, YOU SHOULD BE OUT BOMBING ABORTION CLINICS, KILLING ABORTION DOCTORS, AND EXECUTING CONGRESSMEN AND OTHER GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS. OTHERWISE, YOU ARE JUST STANDING BY, AND ALLOWING EVIL TO FESTER AND GROW IN STRENGTH....STRENGTH THAT WILL TAKE EVEN MORE INNOCENT LIVES. MILLIONS EVERY YEAR FROM ABORTION ALONE....YOU'D BETTER GET BUSY HELPING YOURSELF, AND FIGHTING EVIL, TOROG, OR ELSE YOU WILL NOT BE HELPED BY GOD. YOU CAN COMPLAIN ABOUT A FEW TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE BEING KILLED BY SADDAM OVER 20 YEARS, AND CALL FOR KILLING OF INNOCENT BABIES TO STOP HIM, BUT YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT, OR EVEN ADVOCATE MEANS OF ACTION TO STOP ALL OF THE EVIL PEOPLE IN OUR NATION, AND OUR OWN GOVERNMENT, WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR KILLING ****MILLIONS**** OF INNOCENT BABIES EVERY YEAR! YOU SHOULD BE JOINING SOME CHRISTIAN MILITIAS AND PUTTING THE LIGHTS OUT ON THOSE EVIL PUNKS THAT ARE PERPETRATING AND LEGISLATING THESE THINGS, IF YOU ARE WHO YOU SAY YOU ARE, AND IF YOU BELIEVE WHAT YOU SAY YOU BELIEVE. OTHERWISE, YOU ARE JUST A COWARD, WHO ADVOCATES SHOOTING BOMBS AT PEOPLE THOUSANDS OF MILES AWAY, KILLING THE GUILTY ALONG WITH THE INNOCENT TO BRING YOUR ***AMERICAN IDEALS*** (WHICH INCLUDES ABORTION) OVER THERE....HERE'S A THOUGHT, WHY NOT BE TRULY BRAVE, AND ATTACK ONLY THOSE WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR KILLING THE INNOCENT PEOPLE WHO ARE RIGHT ON YOUR OWN DOORSTEP....I'LL TELL YOU WHY....BECAUSE YOU THINK THAT YOUR LIFE WILL BE SAFE BOMBING THOSE PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE EAST, AND YOU WANT TO ****APPEAR**** AS IF YOU ARE BRAVE AND RIGHTEOUS. ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU KNOW IF YOU LIVE WHAT YOU SPEAK, AND KILL OR DISFIGURE THOSE PUNKS THAT ARE MURDERING INNOCENT BABIES EVERY SINGLE DAY, AND SENDING PEOPLE TO CAPTIVITY TO BE GANG RAPED BECAUSE THEY HAD A GOD GIVEN PLANT, RIGHT IN YOUR OWN BACKYARD, THAT YOU WILL MOST LIKELY BE PERSECUTED FOR IT.
"I can't believe that you basically suggest,that we send our soldiers into battle,armed with sticks and stones,do you ever consider the soldier to be innocent as well ? What about their lives ? They are willing to give their life so that others will be free,is that not a great act of love ?"
IF THEY WERE REALLY WILLING TO GIVE THEIR LIVES TO SAVE INNOCENT PEOPLE, THEY WOULD NOT KILL THEM THEMSELVES! IF THEY WERE REALLY HEROIC, AND WERE REALLY SACRIFICING THEMSELVES TO KEEP OTHERS FROM KILLING THE INNOCENT, THEY WOULD DO EXACTLY AS I SPEAK. YOU WANT TO KNOW WHO THE REALLY BRAVE PEOPLE ARE, WHO ARE RISKING THEIR OWN LIVES TO SAVE THE INNOCENT? IT'S THE PEOPLE YOU NEVER REALLY HEAR ABOUT, AND IF YOU DO, THE MEDIA TEACHES YOU TO DESPISE THEM. PEOPLE LIKE THE GUYS WHO SHOOT THE ABORTION DOCTORS, WHO ARE IN JAIL, AND PEOPLE LIKE THE WAR AND OPPRESSION PROTESTORS WORLDWIDE, WHO FIGHT THE POLICE AND SOLDIERS WITH STICKS AND MOLOTOV COCKTAILS. PEOPLE LIKE THE LITTLE 5 YEAR OLD PALESTINIAN CHILDREN, WHO ARE SICK OF SEEING THEIR MOMS AND SISTERS RAPED, AND THEIR DADS AND BIG BROTHERS KILLED, BEATEN, AND TORTURED, AND THEIR HOMES DEMOLISHED, AND LIVELIHOODS TAKEN, WHO STAND THEIR GROUND IN FRONT OF TANKS, AND THROW ROCKS AT THEM.
THOSE ARE THE REALLY BRAVE PEOPLE, WHO TRULY RISK THEIR OWN LIVES TO SAVE THE INNOCENT, AND ARE NOT HYPOCRITES, KILLING INDISCRIMINATELY JUST TO PROTECT THEIR OWN LIVES. REMEMBER WHAT JESUS SAID, HE WHO SEEKS TO SAVE HIS LIFE WILL LOSE IT, AND HE WHO WILL LOSE HIS LIFE FOR MY SAKE WILL GAIN EVERLASTING LIFE.
"I pray to God everyday,and when I pray for our soldiers,I pray for their protection,not for God to step in and miraculously defeat the enemy..once again,it goes back to God helping those who help themselves..I believe that God wants us to do the hard work of identifying the enemy and set about to confront them in such a way that loss of innocent lives is minimal. The moment that God or Jesus,shows up on the battlefield,I'll step back and submit to their will. You must never forget-that we are on this earth,to evolve spiritually to being more like God and Jesus-and if part of that,is learning how to conduct wars so that no innocent lives are lost,then that's what needs to be done. Why did I say such a thing ? Because it's a given-that Man will always have wars,until Jesus returns.
It seems to me,that yer casting saddam and sons,as being innocent victims,you even go so far as to under-estimate casualties from their hands and over-estimate deaths from our hand's,it seems that yer vulnerable to their propaganda and you haven't decided yet-which are the bad guys and which are the good guys,even though you know dang well-what it is the enemy offers in return for yer support of them."
Have a good one ..."
I DO NOT SUPPORT SADDAM, ONCE AGAIN. ANYONE WHO KILLS INNOCENT PEOPLE, NO MATTER WHAT THEIR JUSTIFICATION, IS THE BAD GUY.
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