Elijah Mohammad
Registered on
Oct-14-2005
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Message #113402 posted by Elijah Mohammad (Info) March 18, 2008 07:28:13 ET
In Reply to: Re: Torog posted by Torog (Info) March 18, 2008 06:00:25 ET
"Howdy Elijah,
You ask: "So, in other words, you accept it as right and necessary for our soldiers to use methods whereby they will certainly kill babies and innocent people, such as bombing, and fighting with guns and artillery in civillian areas?"
I see what yer problem is now,you don't think that the lives of our soldiers/citizens,are more valuable than the lives of the enemy..our goverment and military,operates under the doctrine that the lives of our soldiers are more valuable than the enemy,and a similar policy is now in effect with the civilian police forces as well."
No, I believe that innocent civillians' lives are more valuable than the lives of those who are blowing them up....no matter what side they claim to be on or what reasoning they have amongst themselves that they think justifies taking innocent lives.
"Warfare has evolved with each war,yielding more precise weaponery,in order to prevent the loss of innocent lives and accomplish military objectives with less waste and more efficiency-we developed the nuclear bomb,in order to prevent the potential loss of many more American soldiers,who would have gone in and had to do house-to-house fighting. That would have extended the war and given the japs and germans,more time for them to develope the nuclear bomb,which they were on the path to do so,already."
That's all a bunch of bull crap right there. More precise weapons over time....HA!!! I hope that's a joke. When since is a nuclear bomb more precise than a sword or club? Only the person you're trying to kill dies with a sword or club....tens to hundreds of thousands of innocent people at least die from nuclear weapons. Let me break it down for you really quick. (By the estimated # of innocent people murdered unintentionally out of 10,000,000 warfare motivated deaths.)
Club(Beginning of history): Unintended murders in warfare=0/10,000,000
Sword(Close to the beginning of history): Unintended murders in warfare=10/10,000,000
Primitive Projectile Weapons(After clubs and sharp sticks and sword-like stones): Unintended murders in warfare=100/10,000,000
Guns(Middle Ages): Unintended murders in warfare= 10,000/10,000,000
Artillery(Middle Ages): Unintended murders in warfare=20,000/10,000,000
Bombs and Missiles(20th century Roman time): Unintended murders in warfare=100,000/10,000,000
Nuclear/Chemical/Biological Weapons...Weapons of Mass Destruction (mainly 20th century): Unintended murders in warfare=DESIGNED TO KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE.
If you don't see the progression there, then I don't really know what to say to you further on that.
"The type of warfare that you want us to engage in,would result in the loss of many more American soldiers and play into the tactics of the enemy,which would surely lead to defeat on at least a tactical scale,if not a strategic scale. Many of our soldiers are family men and do their best to keep the innocent children away from harm,but if the parents refuse to leave the war-zone and feel that losing their lives will result in glory before Allah,it's up to the politicians to figure out a way to evacuate the local populace,if possible..otherwise the 'innocents' that you describe,become enemy combatants."
Refuse to leave the War Zone???? IT'S THEIR HOME....GET A HEART MAN!!!!! WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF YOUR HOMETOWN WAS ATTACKED AND OCCUPIED, AND YOU WERE CLASSED AS AN "ENEMY COMBATANT" BECAUSE YOU'RE TRYING TO DRIVE YOUR FAMILY TO THE MARKET TO GET SOME FOOD AND TO THE RIVER FOR SOME WATER SO YOU ALL DON'T STARVE AND DEHYDRATE, AND YOU HAPPEN TO BE IN THE WRONG PLACE AT THE WRONG TIME, BECAUSE SOME PUNKS DECIDED TO MAKE YOUR HOME A WARZONE. WOULD IT REALLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE WHO OR WHY? WHAT'S DONE IS DONE....THE ENDS DON'T JUSTIFY THE MEANS FOR MANKIND, BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW AND CAN'T DETERMINE THE ENDS FROM OUR OWN WILL. ONLY THE MEANS MATTER. WHAT'S ACTUALLY GOING ON, AND HOW ARE YOU HELPING IN THE PRESENT TO MAKE THAT BETTER INSTEAD OF WORSE? HAVE OUR TROOPS MADE THE LIVES OF MILLIONS OF IRAQIS BETTER BY KILLING HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF THEM, AND INJURING MILLIONS, AND DESTROYING THE LIVELIHOOD OF THE REST? YOU GIVE ME ONE GOOD EXCUSE IN YOUR ENDS JUSTIFY THE MEANS RATIONALE FOR BRINGING HELL TO SO MANY OF OUR FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS ON EARTH....WHAT IS SO IMPORTANT THAT IT'S WORTH THE LIVES AND BLOOD OF SO MANY INNOCENT PEOPLE? WAS SADDAM WORTH THAT COST? HE MAY HAVE THOUGHT HE WAS, BUT I DON'T....NEITHER DOES ANYONE WHO HAS SUFFERED SO MUCH UNDER AMERICA IN IRAQ. WHEN MORE THAN HALF THE POPULACE THINKS ITS OK TO ATTACK AMERICAN TROOPS THAT SHOULD REALLY TELL YOU SOMETHING....THEY DON'T WANT YOU THERE! YOU'RE BULLIES. IN SADDAM'S REGIME, EVERYONE COULD HAVE WHATEVER KIND OF GUNS THEY WANTED TO, AND THERE WERE NOT THESE KIND OF ATTACKS ON HIS SOLDIERS AND POLICE. THAT REALLY SHOULD TELL YOU A LOT. WHEN AMERICAN SOLDIERS KICK DOWN EVERY DOOR AND CONFISCATE EVERY WEAPON THEY CAN FIND AND STILL GET ATTACKED EVERY SINGLE DAY THERE.
HERE'S ANOTHER INTERESTING FACT TO PONDER...WHENEVER POLICE FORCES BEGIN USING HEAVIER WEAPONRY TO COMBAT CRIME IN CITIES, THEIR OPPOSITION GETS HEAVIER WEAPONRY TOO. WHEN THE POLICE SCALE DOWN THEIR WEAPONS, THE OPPOSITION SCALES DOWN THEIR WEAPONS. YOU CAN'T THINK THAT YOU WILL SOMEHOW INTIMIDATE A POPULATION TO YIELD TO OPPRESSION BY HEAVIER WEAPONRY....AND YOU CAN'T THINK THAT YOU WILL BE VICTORIOUS OVER YOUR ENEMY BECAUSE OF HEAVIER WEAPONRY...REMEMBER THE EXAMPLE OF OSAMA BIN LADEN IN AFGHANISTAN...OSAMA AND FRIENDS BEAT THE SOVIETS WITH JUST SOME ROCKET LAUNCHERS AND AUTOMATIC WEAPONS. AND THE SOVIETS HAD TANKS AIRCRAFT, BOMBS, MISSILES, ARTILLERY, THE WHOLE WORKS...THEY AND THE UNITED STATES WERE BOTH CLOSE TOGETHER IN SUPERPOWER STATUS, YET, OSAMA WON. HOW DID HE DO IT? BETTER WEAPONS AREN'T EVERYTHING....
"Why do you not castigate the leadership of those countries who have forced warfare in civilian area's ? You do realize that is one of the tactics of the enemy ? Even Ahmadinejad basically said,that if need be,he'd sacrifice every man,woman and child-in Iran,,if it meant the defeat of America and Israel..shouldn't you hold him accountable for such a doctrine ? The enemy wants people like you to come out of the wood-work and call our soldiers baby-killers and do what yer kind did during the Vietnam war..you are playing into their strategic and tactical plans."
I DO!!!! I HAVE SAID OVER AND OVER THAT ****ANYBODY**** WHO DOES THESE THINGS IS A PERPETRATOR OF EVIL, AND A TERRORIST. THAT INCLUDES LEADERS OF OTHER COUNTRIES WHO DO THESE THINGS, AS I HAVE SPECIFICALLY STATED FURTHER BACK IN THIS THREAD (I DON'T KNOW IF YOU MISSED IT OR WHAT). WHAT YOU CAN'T SEEM TO DO IS ACCEPT THE SAME STANDARD....SOMEHOW, YOUR HOLY ROMAN LEADERS ARE SO MUCH BETTER....THEY ARE GODS IN THEIR OWN EYES, AND IN THAT OF THEIR SUBJECTS....GW BUSH IS "BORN AGAIN," THUS, IN HIS OWN OPINION, HE WAS WASHED OF HIS SINS BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST, AND MADE PART OF HIS BODY....JESUS IS THE HEAD OF THE CHURCH, WHICH IS HIS BODY, AND GOD THE FATHER IS THE "GODHEAD..." JESUS AND THE HOLY GHOST BEING TWO OTHER GODS, WHO ARE ATTACHED AS ONE WITH THE MOST HIGH, IN THAT THEOLOGY. THUS, BEING PART OF THE BODY OF CHRIST, WHO IS PART OF GOD, ACCORDING TO THAT THEOLOGY, JESUS IS GOD....AND IF JESUS IS GOD, THEN THOSE WHO ARE PART OF THE BODY OF CHRIST ARE JESUS. BEING JESUS, THEY ARE ALSO GOD. THIS IS THE THEOLOGY, AT THE VERY ROOT OF EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANITY, WHICH SPRANG FROM ROMAN CATHOLICISM, LIKE ALL OTHER FORMS OF MODERN CHRISTIANITY. THE POPE IS THE ONE WHO EMBODIES IT MOST FULLY THE MOST CONSISTENTLY. HE CLAIMS TO REIGN AS GOD ON EARTH FOR THIS VERY REASON, THAT IN THEIR THEOLOGY, JESUS IS IN THE PLACE OF GOD, AND THE POPE IS IN THE PLACE OF JESUS....THUS, THE POPE IS IN THE PLACE OF GOD.
AS LONG AS THESE WICKED MEN CONTINUE TO ELEVATE THEMSELVES ABOVE OTHERS AS GODS, AS THEY ALWAYS HAVE, WITH THEIR OPPRESSIVE GOVERNMENTS....BUT JESUS SAID THAT HE WHO RULES AMONG THE DISCIPLES WILL NOT BE SO, BUT THE GREATEST AMONG THEM WILL BE THEIR SERVANT.....NOT THEIR GOD. REMEMBER THAT TOROG....GW AND FRIENDS ARE JUST MEN....YOUR CONSERVATIVE BUDDIES ARE JUST MEN, YOUR LIBERAL ENEMIES ARE JUST MEN. THEY ARE NOT INFALLIBLE, AND NEITHER IS IT JUSTIFIED FOR THEM TO COUNT ANYONE AS WORTH MORE THAN AN INNOCENT BABY....NOT EVEN ONE OF THEIR 'HOLY' ROMAN SOLDIERS. IF PEOPLE THROW THEMSELVES IN FRONT OF BULLETS TO SAVE THE LIFE OF THE PRESIDENT, WHO IS OFTEN A SINNER, AND IT IS CONSIDERED A NOBLE THING TO DO, AND A BETTER ALTERNATIVE THAN TO BOMB A FEW POSSIBLY SUSPECT APARTMENT COMPLEXES TO DRIVE OUT THE "TERRORIST CELLS" WHO PLAN HIS ASSASSINATION, WITH A LITTLE COLLATERAL DAMAGE ON THE SIDE, THEN WHY IS IT SO WRONG TO SPARE INNOCENT CIVILLIANS OF BOMBING AND INSTEAD, LET THOSE WHO ARE INCLINED TO SERVE WITH THEIR LIVES, RATHER THAN LASH OUT WRECKLESSLY AT THE LIVES OF THOSE AROUND THEM PROTECT BABIES AND THE INNOCENT?
"Are you really trying to incite me to violence ? The whole world has agreed,that there cannot be targetted assasinations of leaders,which is about the only tactic that would come close to what you want.
Have a good one ..."
HA! NO TARGETED ASSASINATIONS OF LEADERS....IS THAT A JOKE? WHAT HAVE THE UNITED STATES AND ISRAEL, AND PRETTY MUCH ALL NATIONS BEEN DOING LATELY? I ALMOST FEEL LIKE I CAN'T TURN ON THE NEWS WITHOUT HEARING ABOUT THE US AND ISRAEL BOMBING WHERE THEY THINK OPPOSITION LEADERS ARE HIDING. WASN'T SADDAM HUSSEIN WANTED DEAD OR ALIVE BY THE US MILITARY? I SEEM TO REMEMBER THEM BOMBING WHERE THEY THOUGHT HE WAS ON A FEW DIFFERENT OCCASIONS TO TRY TO KILL HIM.
I'M JUST TRYING TO CHANNEL YOUR PATRIOTIC IMPULSES MORE IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION....YOU WERE MOST LIKELY VIOLENT BEFORE I WAS EVER BORN. REMEMBER THOUGH TOROG, ENEMIES, BOTH FOREIGN *********************AND***********************DOMESTIC****************
DON'T LET THE DOMESTIC ENEMIES SEND YOU ON AN EVIL AND MISGUIDED MISSION AGAINST FOREIGN ENEMIES....IT IS USUALLY THE DOMESTIC WHO ARE MUCH MORE DANGEROUS, AND THEY TEND TO ACCOMPLISH THEIR VILLAINY THROUGH UNJUST LAWS AND DECREES.
P.S. DO YOU HAVE A REPUTABLE SOURCE FOR THE AHMADINEJAD QUOTE? JUST CURIOUS....IF YOU HAVE READ MY ARTICLE ABOUT IRAN BEING THE TENTH NUCLEAR NATION IN THE UN, THE TENTH HORN ON THE BEAST, THEN YOU WOULD KNOW THAT I THINK AHMADINEJAD'S GOVERNMENT MAY JUST BE THE ONE AROUND WHICH WORLD WAR III WILL BEGIN. IF IT IS GOD'S WILL, NONE WILL CHANGE IT. THE BIBLE PROCLAIMS THAT TEN KINGS WILL ARISE WHO WILL GIVE THEIR POWER AND STRENGTH FOR A TIME TO A ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT UPON WHICH THE GREAT CITIES (WHICH ARE ALL FROM ONE MOTHER SOURCE, BABEL) SIT....THEY WILL ONLY DO THIS FOR A TIME, TO FULFILL GOD'S WILL, AND THEN, THEY WILL BURN THE GREAT WORLD CITIES WITH FIRE.....THE FIRE BROUGHT DOWN BY THE SECOND BEAST FROM REVELATION IS CALLED FIRE FROM "URANOUS", WHICH IS THE ROOT WORD UPON WHICH "URANIUM" IS BASED. THERE ARE DESTINED TO BE TEN NATIONS IN THE ONE WORLD UN GOVERNMENT WHO WILL BE ARMED WITH NUCLEAR WEAPONS, AND WILL DECIDE AT SOME POINT TO FORSAKE THEIR COVENANT, AND DESTROY WORLD CIVILIZATION AS WE KNOW IT WITH THEIR NUCLEAR WEAPONS. AND IT'S NOT JUST IRAN THAT WILL BE INVOLVED....THEY, IF THEY ARE INDEED THE TENTH NATION, WILL BE ONE OF THE LEAST OF THE DESTROYERS....THE UNITED STATES, RUSSIA, AND CHINA WILL BE BY FAR THE GREATEST...MAYBE ISRAEL AS WELL.
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