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remember iraq?
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Message #113458 posted by forged registration (Info) March 22, 2008 13:44:48 ET

4 Americans Killed in Iraq; U.S. Attack Leaves 6 Dead Amid a Dispute

By RICHARD A. OPPEL Jr. and ANWAR J. ALI
Published: March 23, 2008

BAGHDAD — Four American soldiers were killed near the capital in the past two days, the military said Saturday, and north of Baghdad an American attack helicopter killed six people who the Iraqi police said were pro-American Sunni militia fighters.

The latest American troop deaths pushed the toll of United States service members killed since the beginning of the war five years ago to 3,996, according to several independent tallies.

Three soldiers were killed when militants attacked their patrol with a roadside bomb northwest of the capital on Saturday, the military command in Baghdad reported. Two Iraqi civilians also died.

The fourth American soldier was killed south of the capital on Friday by indirect fire, which normally refers to mortar shells or rockets. Four other soldiers were wounded in the attack, according to a military statement, which did not provide any more details.

Violence in Iraq dropped sharply late last year, especially in Baghdad and Anbar Province, but the decline in casualties has halted. Since the beginning of the year, Sunni guerrillas and Shiite militants have been killing an average of about one American service member per day. Civilian deaths have also begun to rise in recent weeks. But casualty tallies still remain well below those of a year ago.

Much of the security gains have been attributed to the decision of Sunnis, many of whom were guerrilla fighters, to become American-backed neighborhood militia guards, paid about $300 a month by the military.

But as the program has expanded, some militia groups have been infiltrated by Sunni militants still at war with American forces. And in some cases American troops have had trouble distinguishing the former insurgents working for the Americans from active fighters who are not.

Details were sharply disputed regarding the attack Saturday near Samarra that an Iraqi police official said left the six pro-American Sunni militia guards dead.

One Sunni militia leader in the area said the men who were killed had been staffing a legitimate checkpoint. But the American military command for northern Iraq said the helicopter fired on men who appeared to be trying to bury a roadside bomb.

“American forces said that the people they killed were gunmen, but they were my men, and they were even wearing Awakening uniforms,” said Abu Farouk, a leader of pro-American Awakening militia forces near Samarra. Two other Sunni militia fighters were wounded.

American military officials acknowledged that six people were killed by an Apache helicopter, but they rejected the account provided by the Iraqi police official and Abu Farouk.




Re: remember iraq?
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Message #113459 posted by forged registration (Info) March 22, 2008 13:46:44 ET
In Reply to: remember iraq? posted by forged registration (Info) March 22, 2008 13:44:48 ET

Fresh violence frays militia truce in Iraq

Posted Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:25am AEDT

Mehdi Army fighters attacked police patrols in southern Baghdad, police said, further fraying a seven-month-old cease-fire called by Shiite cleric Moqtada al Sadr to rein in his militia.

The clashes in Baghdad's Shurta district, which started late on Thursday and continued into Friday morning, follow outbreaks of violence in the southern Iraqi city of Kut in which Mehdi Army fighters battled US and Iraqi security forces.

The fighting took place on the same day that Iraq marked five years since the US-led invasion.

A US soldier died from wounds sustained on Friday from "indirect fire", a term usually used to describe rocket or mortar fire, south of Baghdad the US military said. Four other soldiers were also wounded.

Separately, a US soldier died earlier this week when his vehicle overturned in Mandali, a town about 100 kilometres north-east of Baghdad, the US military said.

The deaths bring the number of US soldiers killed in Iraq since the invasion to at least 3,993 according to website www.icasualties.org. War critics are likely to seize on the grim milestone of 4,000 to renew calls for a U.S. troop withdrawal.




Re: remember iraq?
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Message #113460 posted by forged registration (Info) March 22, 2008 13:50:43 ET
In Reply to: Re: remember iraq? posted by forged registration (Info) March 22, 2008 13:46:44 ET

VP Cheney dismisses the will of the American people

WASHINGTON, March 20 - U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney downplayed most Americans' opposition to the Iraq war, saying the administration would not be affected by "fluctuating" opinion polls, Washington Post reported on Thursday.

According to the report, Cheney touted that the U.S. troop surge last year has yielded a "major success" during an interview with ABC news on Wednesday, the fifth anniversary of the Iraq war.

"On the security front, I think there's a general consensus that we have made major progress, that the surge has worked," he said when visiting Oman, one of the stops on his Middle East trip.

When asked to comment on a recent poll showing that most Americans say the Iraq war is not worth it, Cheney responded with "so?"

"You don't care what the American people think?" the TV host asked.

"No," Cheney answered. "I think you cannot be blown off course by the fluctuations in the public opinion polls."

The vice president also compared President George W. Bush's war policies to former President Abraham Lincoln's decision to launch the Civil War.

"Think about what would have happened if Abraham Lincoln had paid attention to polls, if they had had polls during the Civil War," he said. "He never would have succeeded if he hadn't had a clear objective."

As an architect of the U.S. Iraq war policy, Cheney declared during a surprise visit to Baghdad on Monday that U.S. efforts to install democracy in Iraq is a "successful endeavor."

He also insisted on the links between former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein and al-Qaida although a newly-released defense intelligence report has made an opposite conclusion.

According to a latest poll by Washington Post-ABC News, nearly two-thirds of Americans said that the war was not worth fighting and fewer than half think that the United States is making significant progress restoring civil order in Iraq.

Only 32 percent of Americans approved Bush's performance in the job, the lowest in his tenure so far.




Re: remember iraq?
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Message #113461 posted by forged registration (Info) March 22, 2008 13:54:26 ET
In Reply to: remember iraq? posted by forged registration (Info) March 22, 2008 13:44:48 ET

interesting reading - former supporters of bush's iraq policy explain how they got it wrong:

http://www.slate.com/id/2186757/




Re: remember iraq?
dabullz

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Message #113462 posted by dabullz (Info) March 22, 2008 15:42:50 ET
In Reply to: Re: remember iraq? posted by forged registration (Info) March 22, 2008 13:50:43 ET

"Only 32 percent of Americans approved Bush's performance in the job, the
lowest in his tenure so far. "

A direct correlation to the highest gas prices in during his administration...

If gas was .90c a gallon, the American people would, if constitutionally
possible, elect him overwhelmingly to a 3rd term.







Click Here to View 113462.jpg
View 113462.jpg



Re: remember iraq?
Higherminded
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Message #113463 posted by Higherminded (Info) March 22, 2008 16:32:47 ET
In Reply to: Re: remember iraq? posted by dabullz (Info) March 22, 2008 15:42:50 ET

And if Jeb wasn't the governor of Florida, Gore would be President. But who is counting?

http://www.markfiore.com/president_petro_0
Let me know when we start getting them 90 cent a gallon gas prices! I am sure Bush and his buddies are all over that, being the old fashioned businessmen that they are...lol
best wishes,
HM




Re: remember iraq?
LeftyToker

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Message #113464 posted by LeftyToker (Info) March 22, 2008 18:51:38 ET
In Reply to: Re: remember iraq? posted by dabullz (Info) March 22, 2008 15:42:50 ET


.Bottom Line:
..What about Iraq?
...Remember Iraq?
....Dont hear much of anything about Dead Soldiers anymore;.
..
..what happenned to the "troop supporters", like Torog,,and HOG,,and Sar??
,who find repulsive shock and awe about some absurd story concer ning San Francisco banning some Marine parade thing.,
..and accuse anyone who questions the invasion and occupation of being anti-American 'defeatists'..??
.
..time to wake up and smell the motherfucking nightmare that US Soldiers face every day!
..Our s o ldiers believe that us folks back here in the homeland, are getting daily news about the fuckedness!
...nope..sorry...too bad..
..there's almost no mention of Iraq in the news.
,,yet, we still see idiots with 'support our troops' stickers,
and people w hining about lack of patriotism amongst those who dare to critisize the fuckedness!!!
..
...If anyone cares about our 'troops', then they want them to come home NOW.
.
...I'm really tired of the shallow myopic rubbish spewed forth by fucking idiots who think we can "win".

..fuck..
.
..˚¥çˆ¶¥∫¥…¨≈ §ˆ¥√ …ˆ¥¨∫…ˆªº≈Ωª§¶¥…ª•¨˜…º•≈Ωª¶§¥∫π…¶•¨˜ºˆ˜–ªˆ√溠•¨v






Re:remember Winning iraq?
LeftyToker

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Message #113465 posted by LeftyToker (Info) March 22, 2008 19:09:59 ET
In Reply to: Re: remember iraq? posted by LeftyToker (Info) March 22, 2008 18:51:38 ET


..furthermore:

...There is no such thing as "winning" Iraq!!
...
...it is not a "win/lose",,and/or; "victory/defeat" situation.
..
I challenge anyone to debate the issue/concept!.
.
..you cannot "win", an occupation!
.
..there is no such thing as "vict ory", without defeating a specific and defined opponent!.
..
....you could "win", a game of solitare../?/..(at least you know who your opponent is).
..you can not 'win' a "war on terror"..
...you might as well try to win a "war on bad people".!
..
..you need an enemy to "win".
..."terror", does NOT qualify as an enemy....."bad people", are not a legitimate enemy either!
..\
..SAME WITH DRUGS!
.
..it's nonsense to talk about 'winning, and losing', without a legitimate opposition.
.
..fˇ
af




still
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Message #113468 posted by forged registration (Info) March 22, 2008 19:46:32 ET
In Reply to: Re: remember iraq? posted by dabullz (Info) March 22, 2008 15:42:50 ET

if gas was 90 cents a gallon:

- 4000 US troops and hundreds of thousands of iraqis would still be dead

- millions of jobs would still have been exported

- the trade deficit still would have doubled

- the national debt would still have doubled

- the US dollar would still have lost half it's value

- the dow jones index would still be hovering at the same level it was before george bush took office

- there would still have been a subprime mortgage crisis

- there still wouldn't be any WMD or links to al qaida in iraq

- america's international reputation would still be in the shithouse

- US foreign policy would still be creating support for and incidence of terrorism

- george bush would still be the worst president in history




Re:remember Winning iraq?
imnother

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Message #113470 posted by imnother (Info) March 22, 2008 19:59:34 ET
In Reply to: Re:remember Winning iraq? posted by LeftyToker (Info) March 22, 2008 19:09:59 ET

OK...OK....I get it! WTF then are we supposed to do to keep them from killing our people and destroying our property here in America? You can't negotiate with religious zealots that believe in their mission.



Re:remember Winning iraq?
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Message #113471 posted by forged registration (Info) March 22, 2008 20:11:13 ET
In Reply to: Re:remember Winning iraq? posted by imnother (Info) March 22, 2008 19:59:34 ET

you can erode the support for religious zeolots by *not* turning them into prophets and *not* making them the last line of defence against imperialist foreign governments





Re:remember Winning iraq?
Torog
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Message #113472 posted by Torog (Info) March 23, 2008 07:06:25 ET
In Reply to: Re:remember Winning iraq? posted by LeftyToker (Info) March 22, 2008 19:09:59 ET


Howdy LeftyToker,

Gittin rid of saddam and sons,killing many AQ and forcing AQ to fight us over there,instead of here,is the victory. :) We already won !

Islam is the poison that keeps arab-muslims from moving forward,and as imnother points out,they are on a religious mission..to destroy Israel and America and the Free World.

A general delaration should be issued-that as long as arab-muslims cling to tribal loyalties,they are incompatable with modern civilization and incapable of sustaining a goverment that doesn't make constant threats and attacks against the Free World.

Oh well..you ain't gonna ever be convinced,till we're fighting them in the streets here,at which point-I'll git to say "I told ya so !" . :)

Have a good one !



Click Here to View 113472.jpg
View 113472.jpg



izzat why iraq isn't in the news? cuz usa won?
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Message #113475 posted by forged registration (Info) March 23, 2008 12:15:04 ET
In Reply to: Re:remember Winning iraq? posted by Torog (Info) March 23, 2008 07:06:25 ET

"Gittin rid of saddam and sons,killing many AQ and forcing AQ to fight us over there,instead of here,is the victory. :) We already won !"

- YAY! MISSION ACCOMPLISHED again! uhm, then why is the usa still occupying iraq and where are the victory parades? the sad shame of it all is that AQ wasn't in iraq when the usa and AQ were already in afghanistan...if bush hadn't dangled his troops as bait for AQ in iraq, he might have caught bin laden by now

instead, five years + $500 billion + a few hundred thousand dead bodies down the road, iraq is still a chaotic shithole where most of the population has to deal with open sewers, intermittent electricity, and unsafe water...violence has created *millions* of displaced iraqi refugees...hospitals are understaffed and undersupplied...al qaida has a new base of operations, making iraq a terrorist training camp...meanwhile, americans hiding inside baghdad's green zone are taking hot showers and eating big macs and going to the movies



"A general delaration should be issued-that as long as arab-muslims cling to tribal loyalties,they are incompatable with modern civilization and incapable of sustaining a goverment that doesn't make constant threats and attacks against the Free World."

- i wish you held your own government to such high, noble standards...your declaration should be issued to the US government which has attacked more countries and killed more people than all arab-muslim governments combined




winners don't get shelled
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Message #113478 posted by forged registration (Info) March 23, 2008 12:51:20 ET
In Reply to: izzat why iraq isn't in the news? cuz usa won? posted by forged registration (Info) March 23, 2008 12:15:04 ET


Volleys of explosions rock Baghdad's Green Zone
Last Updated: Sunday, March 23, 2008 | 1:15 AM ET
CBC News

Artillery blasts rained down early Sunday morning on Baghdad's Green Zone, a heavily fortified area of the capital that houses the Iraqi government, major embassies and thousands of U.S. troops.

The attack came in three waves of rocket and mortar fire and lasted about 15 minutes. Black smoke could be seen billowing up from buildings in one part of the Green Zone.

It was not immediately known what buildings had been struck or whether there were any casualties.

Sirens blared, warning people to take cover, and a U.S.-installed public-address system cautioned to stay away from windows during the barrage.

The Green Zone, which covers about 10 square kilometres on the left bank of the Tigris River, has been a frequent target of munitions attacks. The U.S. military has blamed several past Green Zone bombardments on rogue Shia paramilitaries.




Re: izzat why iraq isn't in the news? cuz usa won
Dabullz

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Message #113479 posted by Dabullz (Info) March 23, 2008 13:18:58 ET
In Reply to: izzat why iraq isn't in the news? cuz usa won? posted by forged registration (Info) March 23, 2008 12:15:04 ET

"iraq is still a chaotic shithole where most of the population has to deal with
open sewers, intermittent electricity, and unsafe water...violence has created
*millions* of displaced iraqi refugees...hospitals are understaffed and
undersupplied."

Wow you aren't very informed - Iraq was all of those before, particularly if
you were Shia - the sewer system collapsed in Sadr City, home of 1,000,000
Shiites - did Saddam do anything? Nope - the American are doing it now.

Marsh Arabs? Remember them? How Saddam drained the marsh and created
an massive environmental disaster? Remember how the Iraqis lit the Kuwaiti
oil wells on fire in retreat after their figurative rape of the that country?

How about the 1,000,000 dead Iraqis during the Iran/Iraq war? Which was
started unprovoked by Saddam? How about the 400,000 dead Iranians?
Including those hit with WMDs? Oh, wait, I forgot, Saddam never had WMDs,
right? Ask the Iranians, ask the Kurds what he had.

How about the 500,000 dead Iraqi women and children who died as a result
of the UN sanctions, you know, the "humane" solution I am sure you loved?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lK_QshS2EW8

The BS that Iraq was a wonderland was only true for the 20% of the folks who
were Sunni - Iraq was a literal hell for everyone else in it and around it.

It is OUR treasure and blood being spent, not YOURS - shut up already.

DB







Re: izzat why iraq isn't in the news? cuz usa won
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Message #113480 posted by forged registration (Info) March 23, 2008 14:25:34 ET
In Reply to: Re: izzat why iraq isn't in the news? cuz usa won posted by Dabullz (Info) March 23, 2008 13:18:58 ET

how come it's a travesty when saddam won't fix a sewer while his country is under one of the most punishing trade embargos on the planet, but you think the US gov't is somehow benevolent to invade the country and five years later, iraqis are no better off than when saddam hussein was in power? according to the red cross and amnestry international, iraq remains one of the worst countries in the world...looks like YOU got ripped off for YOUR treasure and blood...speak up already!



Red Cross, Amnesty paint grim picture of post-invasion Iraq

Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:38 AM ET

GENEVA (AFP) - Five years after the US-led invasion, Iraq faces a major humanitarian crisis, with law and order and economic recovery a distant prospect, international aid and human rights groups said Monday.

The International Committee of the Red Cross highlighted the plight of millions of Iraqis who still have little or no access to clean water, sanitation or health care.

"The humanitarian situation in most of the country is among the most critical in the world," the Swiss-based agency said in a report.

"Better security in some parts of Iraq must not distract attention from the continuing plight of millions of people who have essentially been left to their own devices," said Beatrice Roggo, the ICRC's head of operations for the Middle East and North Africa.

Although security has improved in some parts of the country, the Red Cross report stressed that Iraqis were being killed or injured on a daily basis in fighting and attacks.

Civilians are often deliberately targeted, in complete disregard for the rules of international humanitarian law, it added.

A recent World Health Organisation and Iraqi health ministry report estimated that 151,000 people were killed between the start of the invasion on March 20, 2003 and June 2006.

Other estimates have put the number of civilian deaths as a result of the conflict between nearly 48,000 and as high as 601,000.

The ICRC said hospitals lacked qualified staff and basic drugs, and therefore struggled to provide suitable care for the injured. Many health-care facilities have not been properly maintained, and the care they provide is often too expensive for ordinary Iraqis.

"To avert an even worse crisis, more attention must be paid to the everyday needs of Iraqis," Roggo said. "Everyone should have regular access to health care, electricity, clean water and sanitation."

In a separate report to mark the fifth anniversary of the US-led invasion, Amnesty International said the rights situation in Iraq was "disastrous".

"Five years after the US-led invasion that toppled (former president) Saddam Hussein, Iraq is one of the most dangerous countries in the world," the 24-page report said.

Against a backdrop of insecurity, law and order and economic recovery were a "distant prospect" while most Iraqis were living in poverty, with food shortages, lack of access to safe drinking water and high unemployment.

More than four in 10 Iraqis lived on less than one US dollar a day -- the UN standard for measuring poverty -- while the health and education systems were at near collapse and women and girls at risk of violence from extremists.

"Saddam Hussein's administration was a byword for human rights abuse," said Amnesty's director for Middle East and North Africa, Malcolm Smart. "But its replacement has brought no respite at all for its people."

The failure to investigate alleged abuses "is one of the most worrying aspects for the future", he added.

"Even when faced with overwhelming evidence of torture under their watch, the Iraqi authorities have failed to hold the perpetrators to account -- and the US and its allies have failed to demand that they do so," he said.

Amnesty also criticised the extensive use of the death penalty, the international community's failure to cater for Iraqi refugees and despite the more stable situation, the lack of free speech in the Kurdistan region.

"Despite claims that the security situation has improved in recent months, the human rights situation is disastrous," the London-based group said, highlighting the kidnap, torture and murder of civilians by armed groups.

"All sides have committed gross human rights violations, including war crimes and crimes against humanity," it added, referring to militia groups, Iraqi security forces, US-led troops plus private and military security guards.








new green zone slogan: 'duck and cover'
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Message #113481 posted by forged registration (Info) March 23, 2008 15:46:09 ET
In Reply to: Re: izzat why iraq isn't in the news? cuz usa won posted by forged registration (Info) March 23, 2008 14:25:34 ET

On Violent Iraq Easter, 57 Killed
from The Associated Press

BAGHDAD March 23, 2008, 03:14 pm ET · Rockets and mortars pounded Baghdad's U.S.-protected Green Zone Sunday and a suicide car bomber struck an Iraqi army post in the northern city of Mosul in a surge of attacks that killed at least 57 people nationwide.

The latest violence underscored the fragile security situation and the resilience of both Sunni and Shiite extremist groups as the war enters its sixth year and the U.S. death toll in the conflict approaches 4,000.

Attacks in Baghdad probably stemmed from rising tensions between rival Shiite groups — some of whom may have been behind the Green Zone blasts. It was the most sustained assault in months against the nerve center of the U.S. mission.

The deadliest attack of the day was in Mosul when a suicide driver slammed his vehicle through a security checkpoint in a hail of gunfire and detonated his explosives in front of an Iraqi headquarters building, killing 13 Iraqi soldiers and injuring 42 other people, police said.

Iraqi guards opened fire on the vehicle but couldn't stop it because the windshield had been bulletproofed, said an Iraqi army officer. He spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not supposed to release the information.

Mosul, Iraq's third largest city about 225 miles northwest of Baghdad, has been described as the last major urban area where the Sunni extremist al-Qaida group maintains a significant presence.

In Baghdad, rockets and mortars began slamming into the Green Zone about sunrise, and scattered attacks persisted throughout the day, sending plumes of smoke rising over the heavily guarded district in the heart of the capital.

A U.S. public address system in the Green Zone warned people to "duck and cover" and to stay away from windows.

U.S. spokeswoman Mirembe Nantongo said four people were wounded in the Green Zone, which includes the U.S. and British embassies as well as major Iraqi government offices. She gave no nationalities.

But Iraqi police said 10 civilians were killed and more than 20 were injured in rocket or mortar blasts in scattered areas of eastern Baghdad — some of them probably due to misfired rounds.

Also in the capital, seven people were killed and 14 wounded in a suicide car bombing Sunday in the Shiite area of Shula in the capital, police reported. Such attacks are the hallmark of Sunni religious extremists.

Gunmen opened fire on passengers waiting for buses in a predominantly Shiite area in southeastern Baghdad, killing at least seven men and wounding 16 people, including women and children, according to police.

Police also found the bullet-riddled bodies of 12 people — six in Baghdad, four in Mosul and two in Kut, scene of clashes between government troops and Shiite militiamen.

Elsewhere, several mortars or rockets struck a U.S. base in the Shiite city of Hillah, about 60 miles south of Baghdad, Iraqi police said. The American military did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the attack.

No group claimed responsibility for the Green Zone attacks, but suspicion fell on Shiite extremists based on the areas from which the weapons were fired.

The attacks followed a series of clashes last week between U.S. and Iraqi forces and factions of the Mahdi Army, the biggest Shiite militia loyal to radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.

Al-Sadr led two uprisings against U.S.-led coalition forces in 2004. Last August he declared a six-month cease-fire to purge the militia of criminal and dissident elements.

U.S. officials have cited the truce, which al-Sadr recently extended, among the reasons behind a 60 percent drop in violence since President Bush ordered 30,000 U.S. reinforcements to Iraq early last year.

But the cease-fire has come under severe strains in recent weeks. Al-Sadr's followers have accused the Shiite-dominated government of exploiting the cease-fire to target the cleric's supporters in advance of provincial elections expected this fall.

Al-Sadr recently told his followers that although the truce remains in effect, they were free to defend themselves against attacks. Al-Sadr followers have demanded the release of supporters rounded up in recent weeks.

U.S. officials have insisted they are not going after Sadrists who respect the cease-fire but are targeting renegade elements, known as special groups, that the Americans believe have ties to Iran.

But the pattern of the attacks against the Green Zone could be a signal to the Americans and their Iraqi partners to ease their pressure against mainstream Sadrists or the special groups.

Elsewhere, 12 gunmen were killed Sunday in a raid against a suspected suicide bombing network east of Baqouba, the U.S. military said.

Iraqi police reported a dozen civilians killed in an airstrike in the same area. But the military said those killed in the raid were insurgents, including six who had shaved their bodies apparently in preparation for suicide operations.

A police commander was shot to death along with his driver in Balad Ruz, 45 miles northeast of Baghdad.

A roadside bomb near the northern city of Tuz Khormato killed four Iraqi soldiers, including an officer.

The violence was reported by police officials who declined to be identified because they weren't supposed to release the information.


************************************************************


"This long-term struggle became urgent on the morning of Sept. 11, 2001. That day we clearly saw that dangers can gather far from our own shores and find us right there at home. So the United States made a decision: to hunt down the evil of terrorism and kill it where it grows, to hold the supporters of terror to account and to confront regimes that harbor terrorists and threaten the peace. Understanding all the dangers of this new era, we have no intention of abandoning our friends or allowing this country of 170,000 square miles to become a staging area for further attacks against Americans."
- Dick Cheney, lying to US troops, Balad Military Base, Iraq, March 2008





Re: new green zone slogan: 'duck and cover'
Dabullz

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Message #113482 posted by Dabullz (Info) March 23, 2008 22:11:18 ET
In Reply to: new green zone slogan: 'duck and cover' posted by forged registration (Info) March 23, 2008 15:46:09 ET

I truly sorry for the loss of life, however, the costs associated with the war in
Iraq have accomplished its two primary goals:

- Keep America safe. A spectacular success. The folks who say we are less
safe are full of crap, as there have been no attacks on US soil, I don't care
what you dredge out of the 'net.

- Consume al Qaeda, gather them into a single battlefield, and kill them.
They seem to consider Iraq THE battlefield. I am glad that is the case.

DB




Re: new green zone slogan: 'duck and cover'
LeftyToker

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Message #113484 posted by LeftyToker (Info) March 24, 2008 04:36:40 ET
In Reply to: Re: new green zone slogan: 'duck and cover' posted by Dabullz (Info) March 23, 2008 22:11:18 ET

Hi DB..
..I could not resist tossing out my opinion.

"I truly sorry for the loss of life, however, the costs associated with the war in
Iraq have accomplished its two primary goals:

- Keep America safe. A spectacular success. The folks who say we a re less
safe are full of crap, as there have been no attacks on US soil, I don't care
what you dredge out of the 'net."

..Good grief DB...
..where do you 'dredge' your info from?..yourself?
..With all due respect,, you are the one who is full of c rap!
"A spectacular success."..WTF?

"- Consume al Qaeda, gather them into a single battlefield, and kill them.
They seem to consider Iraq THE battlefield. I am glad that is the case."

...Do you seriously believe that it is reasonably possibly to k ill all the bad guys?
..enforce peace by killing ...
..how do we know who is bad, or not bad?
..are you like Torog, and believe that all muslims should be eradicated, unless the switch over to jesus?

..what about when an innocent 'bad guy' gets accident l y killed?
..oops,,sorry, we KILLED your Father..He looked like a bad guy..if we would have known he was not a bad guy,we would never have killed him...
...DB..imagine if it was your DAD who got KILLED..
.forgive and forget?...yup,,DaBulz was kind of an gry about his Father getting MURDERED, but he got over it, because he knew that the guys who KILLED his DAD, were just trying to get bad guys.
.
..bottom line:..I dont care how many people you kill,,,you will NEVER kill your way into peace of safety!
..If I killed your Dad, or your Son, it dont matter how good my intentions were, you are never going to forget, or forgive!
.
.
.....h




Re: new green zone slogan: 'duck and cover'
Dabullz

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Message #113486 posted by Dabullz (Info) March 24, 2008 07:12:26 ET
In Reply to: Re: new green zone slogan: 'duck and cover' posted by LeftyToker (Info) March 24, 2008 04:36:40 ET

I don't know Lefty, good questions, "innocent" life, by our standards, is very
difficult to see end.

What is your solution? Remember 9/11? Or should we simply forget it? Our
enemies, with or without the war in Iraq/Afghanistan, will plot our demise if
we don't plot theirs first.

Its called "war" - I invite you to read a little history and come to realize that
lots of folks lose their lives during conflicts.

60,000,000 mostly innocent people lost their lives in WW2 - was our
involvement in that war something you felt was OK? We killed hundreds of
thousands of civilians, mostly Japanese, during that war. Yet, would
hundreds of thousands of American civilians die instead if we didn't?

Would that be acceptable to you? I guess thats the bottom line - its a zero-
sum game. If you ask me if I would rather my children die versus the
enemies children, it is a pretty easy decision, as dark as may seem.

Mankind is evil to the core, them, us, everyone.

DB




Re: new green zone slogan: 'duck and cover'
Torog
Premier Member

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Message #113487 posted by Torog (Info) March 24, 2008 07:47:14 ET
In Reply to: Re: new green zone slogan: 'duck and cover' posted by LeftyToker (Info) March 24, 2008 04:36:40 ET


Howdy LeftyToker,

You erroneously claim:

"..are you like Torog, and believe that all muslims should be eradicated, unless the switch over to jesus?"

I don't want any forced conversion of anyone to any religion..becoming a Christian,is purely voluntary-Christianity no longer forces conversion..however,Islam still does..but I doubt seriously if I will ever hear you denounce that..it seems that for anti-wars and liberals,Islam gits a pass on anything they do - including murdering our citizens and others,on 9/11/01.

I understand that there are some good objections to this war - but- until those who oppose this war,also condemn Islam as the poison that it is and will be,until it goes through a Reformation like Christianity did,their objections carry little weight..because the problem still will not be solved. In fact-discontinueing contact with the enemy,will only give them time to re-group and strengthen,for a fresh,new attack,that will cost even more lives than on 9/11/01.

Have a good one ...




Click Here to View 113487.jpg
View 113487.jpg



Re:remember Winning iraq?
imnother

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Message #113490 posted by imnother (Info) March 24, 2008 09:06:39 ET
In Reply to: Re:remember Winning iraq? posted by forged registration (Info) March 22, 2008 20:11:13 ET

Well now the number two Al Qaeda guy is making threats against Israel and American interests because of Israels offensive in Gaza. Hamas, Syria and Iran are behind that.

We and our interests are still in great danger and we had some heavy casualties lately in the war. Seems it will never end. At least in my lifetime. How the fuck to you rationally negotiate with religious zealots who really do believe they are doing the right thing?




Re:remember Winning iraq?
imnother

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Message #113491 posted by imnother (Info) March 24, 2008 09:12:31 ET
In Reply to: Re:remember Winning iraq? posted by imnother (Info) March 24, 2008 09:06:39 ET

The new tape says he is angry also at Egyptian pres Mubarak for assisting with the borders in that conflict with Gaza. Mubarak is probably on a hit list now and will be going down soon IMHO! Muslims don't like when their own assist in any way. I am surprised the King of Jordan has lasted so long.



Re: new green zone slogan: 'duck and cover'
forged registration

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Message #113499 posted by forged registration (Info) March 24, 2008 14:42:08 ET
In Reply to: Re: new green zone slogan: 'duck and cover' posted by Dabullz (Info) March 23, 2008 22:11:18 ET

the folks at 16 different intelligence agencies in the usa do not agree that invading iraq has kept america safe and consumed al qaida:

Sunday, September 24, 2006 - Page updated at 12:00 AM

Spy agencies say Iraq war worsened terror threat

By Mark Mazzetti

The New York Times

WASHINGTON — A stark assessment of terrorism trends by U.S. intelligence agencies has found that the U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq has helped spawn a new generation of Islamic radicalism and that the overall terrorist threat has grown since the Sept. 11 attacks.

The classified National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) attributes a more direct role to the Iraq war in fueling radicalism than that presented either in recent White House documents or in a report released Wednesday by the House Intelligence Committee, according to several officials who were involved in preparing the assessment or have read the final document.

The intelligence estimate, completed in April, is the first formal appraisal of global terrorism by U.S. intelligence agencies since the March 2003 invasion of Iraq, and it represents a consensus view of the 16 disparate spy services inside government. Titled "Trends in Global Terrorism: Implications for the United States," it asserts that Islamic radicalism, rather than being in retreat, has metastasized and spread around the globe.

An opening section of the report, "Indicators of the Spread of the Global Jihadist Movement," cites the Iraq war as a reason for the diffusion of jihad ideology.

The report "says that the Iraq war has made the overall terrorism problem worse," one U.S. intelligence official said.


also see: invasion of iraq increased terrorism 700% globally:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17137.htm





Re: new green zone slogan: 'duck and cover'
forged registration

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Message #113500 posted by forged registration (Info) March 24, 2008 14:48:30 ET
In Reply to: Re: new green zone slogan: 'duck and cover' posted by Torog (Info) March 24, 2008 07:47:14 ET

"I don't want any forced conversion of anyone to any religion...until those who oppose this war,also condemn Islam as the poison that it is and will be,until it goes through a Reformation like Christianity did,their objections carry little weight..because the problem still will not be solved."

- ok so forced conversion is off the plan, but islam is a poison because a tiny minority of muslims are violent criminal extremists, so the world will not be safe until ALL muslims undergo some kind of 'reformation'...at the same time, i sense a counter-reformation movement among some conservative christians (read: YOU) who think we need to turn the clock back on our successful secular society, rejoin church and state, establish a christian theocracy, and preach bloody foreign policy against islam from the pulpits of the nation




Re: new green zone slogan: 'duck and cover'
jon104

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Message #113505 posted by jon104 (Info) March 24, 2008 23:12:42 ET
In Reply to: Re: new green zone slogan: 'duck and cover' posted by forged registration (Info) March 24, 2008 14:48:30 ET

But just think about it gas would still be 90 cents a gallon, if it were the war would have my blessing. Sounds crappy but unless the oil men and Bush neocons are getting rich off $3 a gallon gas their just never happy. Atleast if the war were for the common good, then I could accept it! But its not, its just for a few people to profiteer while others die for their cash.
Get used to it and vote against it.




Re:remember being brainwashed?
LeftyToker

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Message #113506 posted by LeftyToker (Info) March 25, 2008 03:49:57 ET
In Reply to: Re:remember Winning iraq? posted by imnother (Info) March 22, 2008 19:59:34 ET


.
..fuck it..
...I give up..
....It makes no difference .
.....Some people can not be deprogramed to realize the FACT of reality.
..Iraq was NOT part of 911!!!
..It reminds me of dealing with cult members
....No matter what, the reality is ignored.
....I t seems to make no difference how many times you remind people,
they have been programmed to believe a lie!
..and, that's propaganda at its' best! ..
Yup,,America is a world leader in many ways,,and that includes mastering propaganda.
..
..You know how you can tell when propaganda is state of the art,,done by professionals ?
..You cant. ./?/
¨©ø¨ˆ¥¨ˆ©ˆ∆øπ˚øπ¨ø∆
¬˚∆˙¬¨ˆ©ˆ¨∆…π.tdbbb
.
..I'm kinda tired of hearing myopic zombies keep saying that Iraq had some relation to 911!
..FR has done numerous, excel lent documentations/posts,,that verify, and confirm this fact, in rational terms.
.. ..
...the ignorant ignore that which they have been fooled¨and programmed into believing.
...
..Torog keeps crowing the same ol' redundant crap:

"Gittin rid of saddam and sons,killing many AQ and forcing AQ to fight us over there,instead of here,is the victory. :) We already won ! "
.
.....Torog seems to be blind, and/or perceptionally challenged.
...Imnother , and DaBulz are seem to be in the same boat?/?/
..I'm sorry...I dont mean to offend my friends,,but I thought I'd speak my mind.

¨ˆ¥ç√…ˆ¥¨∫…ªˆ¨≈Ωª¶æºπøµπæˆ≈Ωª¶¥≈¨˜π“ø˜µ 
“ø

ˆ˙√ˆø¨ˆ…¨˜ø¨ˆæ∫fuck¬¨√ø¨ø©…vø




Re:remember being brainwashed?
imnother

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Message #113517 posted by imnother (Info) March 25, 2008 09:27:35 ET
In Reply to: Re:remember being brainwashed? posted by LeftyToker (Info) March 25, 2008 03:49:57 ET

hmmmmmmm well I don't really think there was a connection with Sadam and the events of 911. Sadam was a different issue IMHO! But he definately deserved to die because of
#1 what he and his son did to young women with "no choice" and ruined their lives forever as virginity is a high value on marraige in that culture.
#2 Because of his attempted genocide of the Kurds

#3 he really did once have WMD's [ask the surviving Kurds]
#4 I BELIEVE IN SPREADING DEMOCRACY AND equal rights for women........i have absolutely no right to sit back and enjoy the freedom here in America that we women
"in my lifetime have gotten" and not reach out to women of other cultures who are opressesd.

#5 He was an ASSHOLE in general and him and his son's won't be missed.


BUT.....911 is a different issue and Al Qaeda has used these wars to get animosity ramped up towards America and Europe to spread their radical ideology and recruit more RADICAL ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST TERRORISTS AND currently are using even more women for suicide bombings because they are less suspect and can hide explosives better and do as the men tell them in that culture....fuck them.. ASSHOLE MF ers...Sorry my Christian friends as there are no nice words for these ASSHOLES comin' outta my mouth!


Now as for BRAINWASHING! If you look in the archives you will see that I have admitted that I was brainewashed by Christian fundamentalist most of my youth and rebeled as a teen to the values that were taught to me. But I am quite sure that I am affected by my roots on patriotism because Texans in general are raised to be Proud Americans and patriotic to the death if needed to protect our freedom and way of life here. I myself do believe that.

My own family has fought in EVERY WAR AMERICA HAS HAD SO FAR! including my GGGG Grandfather Isham Beasley who fought in the Revolutionary War and a monument is erected to him in Smith County, Tenn. [Al Gore country] put there by the Sons of the American Revolution.... can be googled BTW!....

plus my husband and brother sacrificed so much and suffered greatly to fight a war for freedom and I CAN'T DISHONOR THEIR MEMORY.

but Lefty...I do listen to you and have made subtle changes in my thinking. So chill and keep on doing what you do because we regulars do listen to you and love and respect you. But if it were not for us conservatives....WHO THE FUCK WOULD YOU GUYS ARGUE WITH DAILY FOR ENTERTAINMENT?


HAGO Lefty and don't let it get to you....I rely on your calm, accepting, non-judgemental ways to lead me by example and I can't afford for you to ever lose it. you the guru here. We do listen, but the programming is embedded deep in our Texas raised brains....a very complex body organ that i have studied much and still don't quite understand how it works. Neurology was not my favorite subject anyway.




Re:remember being brainwashed?
jon104

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Message #113527 posted by jon104 (Info) March 25, 2008 15:07:26 ET
In Reply to: Re:remember being brainwashed? posted by imnother (Info) March 25, 2008 09:27:35 ET

Don't worry FR I can see why your frustrated.

Hey atleast us blind americans can lead you blind canadians.

LOL




Re:remember being brainwashed?
jon104

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Message #113540 posted by jon104 (Info) March 26, 2008 12:38:10 ET
In Reply to: Re:remember being brainwashed? posted by jon104 (Info) March 25, 2008 15:07:26 ET

Watched a documentary on the Iraq war on PBS last night and its been a fiasco, so don't worry it can only get better.



Re:remember being brainwashed?
Dabullz

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Apr-14-2003
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Message #113541 posted by Dabullz (Info) March 26, 2008 14:53:17 ET
In Reply to: Re:remember being brainwashed? posted by jon104 (Info) March 26, 2008 12:38:10 ET

Every war is fiasco - heck, 800 Americans died just training for the D-Day
invasion.

Ya notice how NY Times et al have stopped reporting on Iraq now that we have
adjusted and are winning?







Re:remember being brainwashed?
jon104

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Message #113542 posted by jon104 (Info) March 26, 2008 16:52:11 ET
In Reply to: Re:remember being brainwashed? posted by Dabullz (Info) March 26, 2008 14:53:17 ET

Now that the Iraqi army is fighting some of its own battles, it should fight them all, without further American blood loss.
Politically shows ya that Rumsfeld and the Ambassador made a huge mistake disbanding the army.




Re:remember being brainwashed?
LeftyToker

Registered on
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Message #113546 posted by LeftyToker (Info) March 27, 2008 05:45:54 ET
In Reply to: Re:remember being brainwashed? posted by Dabullz (Info) March 26, 2008 14:53:17 ET

Greetings Mr. DaBullz.

"Ya notice how NY Times et al have stopped reporting on Iraq now that we have
adjusted and are winning?"

..No offense,,and with all due respect,,
,,but what the fuck are you saying?:

"..Iraq now that we have adjusted and are w inning?"

...Ya wanna give me at one or two coherent and rational reasons why you claim we are "winning"??

..and, if you could; please give a brief explanation of what "winning" Iraq would consist of.??
.
..I dont mean to sound rude,,but I'm kinda tired of hearing people talk about "winning", without including a brief definition.!
..I dont think you can "win", an invasion/occupation.
..I guess you can "win", a war,,, but invading, and occupying Iraq was not a "war".
..The other day, you compared Iraq to WWII....ridiculous!!!
....
...Lemme know what you think,,,
(or are you just DaBullzhittin'?)
.
..ˆ¥ç√ ˆ…¥¨˜øµ¨øæ• ≈ª¶∫˙π… nn
u




Re:remember being brainwashed?
Dabullz

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Apr-14-2003
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Message #113551 posted by Dabullz (Info) March 27, 2008 07:43:48 ET
In Reply to: Re:remember being brainwashed? posted by LeftyToker (Info) March 27, 2008 05:45:54 ET

"or are you just DaBullzhittin'?" LMAO :)

Listen, folks of your ilk have your heads in the sand. Apparently, the view
down there is much better and safer and easier to deal with. However, in the
real world, this is what is happening:

Islam is simply continuing a war that has been waged since around 700-
800ad. The fact is they are winning now, hence, the amount of effort put
forth to eliminate the elements of radicalism.

We are, literally, if you consider the Cold War WW3, which it most likely was,
in WW4. There isn't a military solution in the sense we won't kick enough ass
and at some point the Islamofascists will quit.

The only true winnable strategy is Democratizing the fascist states. And ya
gotta start somewhere. Iraq is as good as a place as any since they were
relatively secular to begin with and the Iraqi folks are actually fine people who
desire the "good life" sans the murderous morons who apparently are your
friends.

"Winning" in Iraq means leaving a stable democracy. The Iraqis are very
much on their way to such a state. The radicals are getting beat, not by us,
but by the Iraqis themselves.

Ok - put you head back in the sand and get back to your dreamy thoughts
where the whole world is like a double dip ice cream cone!

DB




Re:remember being brainwashed?
Dabullz

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Apr-14-2003
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Message #113552 posted by Dabullz (Info) March 27, 2008 08:34:02 ET
In Reply to: Re:remember being brainwashed? posted by LeftyToker (Info) March 27, 2008 05:45:54 ET

"or are you just DaBullzhittin'?" LMAO :)

Listen, folks of your ilk have your heads in the sand. Apparently, the view
down there is much better and safer and easier to deal with. However, in the
real world, this is what is happening:

Islam is simply continuing a war that has been waged since around 700-
800ad. The fact is they are winning now, hence, the amount of effort put
forth to eliminate the elements of radicalism.

We are, literally, if you consider the Cold War WW3, which it most likely was,
in WW4. There isn't a military solution in the sense we won't kick enough ass
and at some point the Islamofascists will quit.

The only true winnable strategy is Democratizing the fascist states. And ya
gotta start somewhere. Iraq is as good as a place as any since they were
relatively secular to begin with and the Iraqi folks are actually fine people who
desire the "good life" sans the murderous morons who apparently are your
friends.

"Winning" in Iraq means leaving a stable democracy. The Iraqis are very
much on their way to such a state. The radicals are getting beat, not by us,
but by the Iraqis themselves.

Ok - put you head back in the sand and get back to your dreamy thoughts
where the whole world is like a double dip ice cream cone!

DB




Re:remember being brainwashed?
forged registration

Registered on
Dec-17-2005
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Message #113553 posted by forged registration (Info) March 27, 2008 15:17:05 ET
In Reply to: Re:remember being brainwashed? posted by Dabullz (Info) March 27, 2008 08:34:02 ET

"Islam is simply continuing a war that has been waged since around 700-
800ad. The fact is they are winning now, hence, the amount of effort put
forth to eliminate the elements of radicalism."

- huh? islam is winning? winning WHAT? islam didn't invade iraq and afghanistan...islam didn't beat iraq senseless in the first gulf war and bomb it twice a week for ten years between wars...islam didn't starve up to a million iraqis to death with its trade embargo...islam didn't support the brutal dictatorship of saddam hussein who gassed his own people and operated torture chambers...islam didn't overthrow the democratically elected leader of iran and replace him with a brutal right wing dictator...islam didn't create israel and unconditionally support it's illegal occupations

islam lost it's wars in the crusades and they are losing their wars now...a turkish islamist movement made the last real attempt save the caliphate back in the early 1900's and failed when the ottoman empire collapsed after WWI (and western powers broke the promises made by 'lawrence of arabia')...the empire was broken into pieces and led by dictators and monarchies that copied western systems of government administration, dashing any hopes of reviving the islamists medieval fantasies...with a few exceptions, the islamists fell in on themselves

their theocratic nationalism was invoked after the creation of israel, but they were smashed again after repeated pummelling by the IDF in the six days and yom kippur wars and the unconditional support of the usa...most muslims do not want to live in the dark ages, so the islamicists needed another outside force to bring support back to their cause...the soviet union stepped into the breach by invading afghanistan, and the usa gladly supplied/supported the islamists who rushed into afghanistan to fight the jihad...after the soviets won all the battles, but lost the war and retreated, the afghan islamists fought eachother for years until the taliban emerged as the dominant force...again, the islamists needed another pearl harbour to reinvigorate their cause...this time the usa provided the fertilizer by bombing/starving iraq, installing military bases in saudi arabia (home of the two holiest muslim cities), punishing the palestinians, and maintaining the unconditional support of israel's illegal occupations/policies and the corrupt saudi regime

al qaida is a small, weak, loosely organized non-state group, and there isn't widespread muslim support for islamists in general...we keep giving them pearl harbours to bring support to their cause...the vast majority of the resistance to the occupation of iraq comes from iraqis, not al qaida, but the usa has tried to paint the resistance as the desperate acts of islamists from al qaida and 'foreign fighters'...arabs are capable of fighting their own terrorists, and we have the resources to defend ourselves...there is no need for us to be over there, pretending to be winning or losing, unless the real reason to be there is to secure the oil

islam cannot win/lose a war with the usa because it is a religion (can drugs ever win the war on drugs?)...the united states cannot win because 1)the american people are not motivated to lose more money and lives to a pointless conflict and 2)the insurgents are never going to quit and go home because they are already home

as US intelligence agencies and the pentagon concluded, using US military force against sovereign muslim countries radicalizes muslims...forcing democracy(tm) upon people at the point of a gun is not going to eliminate the elements of radicalism, it's going to feed them, even if people get to vote every four years

OK put your head back in your ass and pretend that stink of shit is roses from grateful iraqis to american liberators



"When this is over, if it is over, this war will have horrible consequences. Instead of having one Bin Laden, we will have one hundred."
- Hosni Mubarak, Egypt's President, 2003




Re:remember being brainwashed?
Dabullz

Registered on
Apr-14-2003
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Message #113556 posted by Dabullz (Info) March 27, 2008 16:00:56 ET
In Reply to: Re:remember being brainwashed? posted by forged registration (Info) March 27, 2008 15:17:05 ET

There is no such thing as "Palestine" or "Palestinians" - made up terms in the
20th century. If there is such a thing as a Palestinian or Palestinian state,
it/they already exist in the state of Jordan. Remember, these countries,
Lebanon, Syria, Jordan are less than 100 years old and are creations of the
British.

And, yes, Islam is winning. It is the fastest growing religion on the planet, it
is slowly taking over Europe, and 9/11 was celebrated in the entire Islamic
world.

Even if 1 out of 10 muslims support Islamofascism directly or indirectly, that
is 150,000,000 people. The states of Islmaofascism are flush with money,
looking for nuclear weapons, and are actively instigating/funding terrorism
around the world.

We are at war

Thanks for your help, though - we really appreciate it.

http://www.amazon.com/Cold-Terror-Nurtures-Exports-
Terrorism/dp/0470834633





Re:remember being brainwashed?
forged registration

Registered on
Dec-17-2005
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Message #113558 posted by forged registration (Info) March 27, 2008 16:19:21 ET
In Reply to: Re:remember being brainwashed? posted by Dabullz (Info) March 27, 2008 16:00:56 ET

if that is true there is no such thing as america either...it's made up term to describe stolen land less than 500 years old and created by the british

how is islam winning a race *from behind*? they're so far back you need a telescope or a time machine to see what you're afraid of...COWBOY UP DB! christians are winning in terms of total membership, total wealth, total strength, total continents, total bibles, total churches, and total hours of tv programming! HURRAH! i bet christians would do even better if they acted like christians more often

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html




Re:remember being brainwashed?
forged registration

Registered on
Dec-17-2005
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Message #113559 posted by forged registration (Info) March 27, 2008 16:26:01 ET
In Reply to: Re:remember being brainwashed? posted by Dabullz (Info) March 27, 2008 16:00:56 ET

"Even if 1 out of 10 muslims support Islamofascism directly or indirectly, that
is 150,000,000 people."

- wow that's almost as many people that live in the red states that support christofacism directly or indirectly



"The states of Islmaofascism are flush with money,
looking for nuclear weapons, and are actively instigating/funding terrorism
around the world."

- which islamofascist states are flush with money? i know the usa is flush with money (although borrowed), and is actively instigating and funding terrorism around the world...are you saying that the usa is an islamofascist state? why do you hate america so much?


haha jes kidding...glad to see you're finally taking a stand against fascism and terrorism




Re:remember being brainwashed?
Dabullz

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Apr-14-2003
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Message #113561 posted by Dabullz (Info) March 27, 2008 18:35:06 ET
In Reply to: Re:remember being brainwashed? posted by forged registration (Info) March 27, 2008 16:19:21 ET

Canada is made up of stolen land by your measurement.

You know what, you are always right Forged - I am going to line my thinking up
right with yours. It will be great to be totally right all the time!!!

DB




Re:remember being brainwashed?
forged registration

Registered on
Dec-17-2005
More User Info

Message #113576 posted by forged registration (Info) March 28, 2008 13:39:35 ET
In Reply to: Re:remember being brainwashed? posted by Dabullz (Info) March 27, 2008 18:35:06 ET

slight difference with canada: we starved our native populations to death while the usa murdered theirs...we did steal some land, but most of the country was settled under treaties signed with the native populations who lived under legal protection of the government...many of those treaties were broken, but the native population *never* surrendered their rights and continued to insist that the government abide by the treaties that promised them rights to land, resources, and self-government...the treaty process is ongoing and many bands have already made final settlements including a small first nations group in my neighbourhood that was recently awarded several hundred acres of the most expensive real estate in canada plus $25 million

trail of tears: a treaty that can never be settled
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears




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