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Polygamists erred when they messed with Texas
Torog
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Message #114326 posted by Torog (Info) May 02, 2008 10:06:17 ET


Polygamists erred when they messed with Texas

Thu May 1, 2008 9:38pm EDT
By Ed Stoddard

ELDORADO, Texas (Reuters) - When a renegade Mormon sect was looking for a quiet place to live out its polygamous beliefs, it made a Texas-sized mistake when it picked this state to move to.

Texas responded by raising the age at which children can legally get married with parental consent, and law enforcement agencies immediately put the sect in its crosshairs.

The result was raids this month that left 463 minors in state hands or foster care. With judges saying they will hear abuse cases individually, the sect's practices are sure of thorough legal scrutiny.

"They made a big mistake when they came here," said Harvey Hilderbran, who represents this part of Texas in the state legislature. "We didn't invite those folks to Texas but by God we expect them to obey our law."

The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (FLDS), founded in the 1930s after the mainstream Mormon church renounced polygamy in 1890, believes a man has a God-sanctioned right to marry several women.

It has long-established communities in remote parts of Arizona, Utah and Canada, and is believed to number a few thousand members.

Authorities in Arizona and Utah have accused it of coercing young girls into marrying much older men. Its leader, Warren Jeffs, was convicted in Utah last year as an accomplice to rape for forcing a 14-year-old girl to marry her cousin.

"With action being taken in Arizona and Utah, it seems like they decided to branch out," said Benjamin Bistline, a historian who has written about the sect in Arizona. "They didn't realize they were making a mistake going to Texas."

Members of the group came to a scrubby ranch in rural west Texas in 2004. They live in a secretive compound from which outsiders are excluded. The women wear long, pioneer-style dresses and appear to live off the land.

Anti-polygamist activists came to Eldorado, the small town near the ranch, and the sect immediately came into the crosshairs of local authorities.

"There was suspicion, speculation and concern and we knew they were the most obedient followers of Warren Jeffs and people were alarmed," Hilderbran said. He sponsored a bill, which became law in 2005, raising the age at which children in the state could marry with parental consent to 16 from 14.

After the raid, Child Protective Services (CPS), the Texas department responsible for such matters, said it identified 20 minors and young adult women with children who had become pregnant between the ages of 13 and 16. The age of sexual consent in Texas is 17.

It also said it found evidence that boys may have been sexually abused.

Polygamy is illegal in the United States but men in the sect marry one woman legally and then have several "spiritual unions." In Texas, a number of young teenage girls were "spiritually married" to older men, Texas CPS said.

Phone calls and e-mailed questions to the sect's spokesman were not returned.

OVERWHELMING FORCE

The raids in April followed a call for help from someone who said she was a 16-year-old mother and said she was suffering abuse, according to media reports.

Some reports said the call may have been a hoax from a woman in Colorado, adding to the view among people living nearby that authorities had been preparing for the raid and ultimately aimed to run the sect out of town.

"They just used it as an excuse to go in there. And they have an agenda. They will close the place down," said Charles McDaniel, a retired firefighter in the nearby town of San Angelo.

The scale of the operation suggests that Texas was ready. Dozens of heavily armed police went into the compound with an armored personal carrier. They met almost no resistance.

"They were ready for a complaint and had contingency plans," said John Sampson, a law professor at the University of Texas at Austin. But he said CPS followed standard procedure.

"If they make a determination that there is an abused child in the household then they have a policy of taking all the children on the basis that if one child is at risk then they are all at risk," he said.

Some legal experts say the Texans had little choice but to go about things the way they did.

"If your mission is to protect vulnerable children and you get that kind of phone call what else do you do?," said Huyen Pham, an associate professor of law at Texas Wesleyan University School of Law in Fort Worth.

"Perhaps they should have done more investigation but how else do you do this with a group of people who have purposely isolated themselves from society?" she said.

Endless legal battles loom. Criminal charges have not yet been laid in the case. Some of the girls may have become pregnant outside before they moved to Texas, which would make prosecution here difficult.

Anti-polygamist activists have lauded Texas.

"They have done what we have been trying to get Utah and Arizona do for a 100 years and that is protect children," said Flora Jessop, who was raised in an FLDS community from which she fled when she was a teenager. "I say God bless Texas."




Re: Polygamists erred when they messed with Texas
imnother

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Message #114327 posted by imnother (Info) May 02, 2008 11:35:09 ET
In Reply to: Polygamists erred when they messed with Texas posted by Torog (Info) May 02, 2008 10:06:17 ET

AMEN and God Bless Texas......and don't freakin' mess with Texas you morman pervs.....we don't cottin' to little girls being victimized and exploited by dirty old men.


AS USUAL TEXAS HAS THE balls to take em' on......God I love the country of Texas. My ashes will definately end up back in my country. VIVA LA TEJAS! .




Re:Idiots err when they brag about Texas
LeftyToker

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Jan-21-2003
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Message #114333 posted by LeftyToker (Info) May 02, 2008 14:42:14 ET
In Reply to: Polygamists erred when they messed with Texas posted by Torog (Info) May 02, 2008 10:06:17 ET


..What a pile of stupid bullshit!
..As if Texas was some kind of seperate and special state with higher morals than all them other trashy states!?
...Fuck..
....I got nothin' against Texas.
..The Lone Star state has alot of good people, and good things,,
,,BUT, Texas aint no better than any other state.
..The only thing wrong with Texas, is the fucking stupid arrogant dimwits who think Texas is superior to the other 49 states!.
...Texas has just as many,(or maybe more), assholes, crazy nuts, and dimented evil freaks as any other state.
[never heard of the 'Utah Chainsaw Massacre'/?/]....ha[[
.....If Torog was born and raised in Arkansas, he would still be who he is.
......If FR was born and raised in Texas, he would still be FR.
.......It dont matter so much where you're from, as much as who you are/?/
......d?




Re:Idiots err when they brag about Texas
forged registration

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Message #114334 posted by forged registration (Info) May 02, 2008 14:55:07 ET
In Reply to: Re:Idiots err when they brag about Texas posted by LeftyToker (Info) May 02, 2008 14:42:14 ET

how long was that mormon cult operating in texas? too long to claim moral bragging rights, i think

i don't know if i'd be the same person if i was raised and lived in texas by fundamentalist christian parents in a conservative neighbourhood...i went to church every week until i moved out of my conservative christian town when i was 18...i didn't even consider the possibility that god might not exist until i was 22, and it took me another 8 years to go from conservative to liberal

i've been thinking about switching back lately...judging by the fox news channel, conservatives can say anything they want without being restricted by facts or guilt...that seems like way more fun than boring old PBS wringing it's hands and moaning about global warming and poverty




Re:Idiots err when they brag about Texas
LeftyToker

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Message #114338 posted by LeftyToker (Info) May 02, 2008 17:27:59 ET
In Reply to: Re:Idiots err when they brag about Texas posted by imnother (Info) May 02, 2008 16:36:56 ET


"PS....do ya really think Texas would have made a difference if FR was raised there.."

..The place a person grows up, and/or lives has an effect on ones outlook.
I reckon a bit of something rubs off from everyones country,state,city,neighborhood of orig in.
..Texas seems to breed alot of 'better than everyone else' type attitudes.
..I've never been to Texas, but I'm quite sure it has alot of excellent places, and things.
..Same with Florida, I've never been there, but I'm sure it's got alot of nice thin gs about it.
....I'm from Seattle...ya dont hear me braggin about it.\
..I live in LA....there's alot of special good things about it, and there are alot of fucked things.
.
..I dont like how Torog seems to stereotypify California, and he aint even fucki ng been here!..
..I almost got murdered in LA..twice!
..I almost got kidnapped by homosexuals in Paris.
..I was almost robbed at a whore-bar in Athens.
..I was threatened, and roughed up by freaky creeps at the GUM department store in Red Square.
..LT got fucked when he visited Texas.
..everywhere is fucked, and everywhere is good.
..A stranger saved my life in Honduras.
.
..It's OK to be proud of where you're from, as long as you respect the places other people are from.
..Texas aint no better than anywhere else.
..as you mentioned/?/
..it's all about the people.
...there are fucked people in good places,
and good people in fucked places.
.
ˆ¨∫ˆ…¥≈爥…
H
A
G
O
..
r




Re:Idiots err when they brag about Texas
Torog
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Message #114344 posted by Torog (Info) May 03, 2008 05:57:46 ET
In Reply to: Re:Idiots err when they brag about Texas posted by forged registration (Info) May 02, 2008 14:55:07 ET


Howdy FR,

The cult came to Texas in 2004 and here's some more info that shows Texas began responding to their presence almost immediately:

" "There was suspicion, speculation and concern and we knew they were the most obedient followers of Warren Jeffs and people were alarmed," Hilderbran said. He sponsored a bill, which became law in 2005, raising the age at which children in the state could marry with parental consent to 16 from 14.

After the raid, Child Protective Services (CPS), the Texas department responsible for such matters, said it identified 20 minors and young adult women with children who had become pregnant between the ages of 13 and 16. The age of sexual consent in Texas is 17."

Whereas it's been a hundred years since the cult set up shop in Arizona and Utah and Colorado,they still haven't done anything about em.

In my estimation,we can claim the moral high-ground in this. Like muslims,they use the freedoms we have - against us and their targets. Muslims are allowed multiple 'wives' as well and we should find out which ones in the US are engaging in polygamy and go after them too.

Have a good one ...


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Please get a life!
hempity
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Message #114348 posted by hempity (Info) May 03, 2008 07:32:48 ET
In Reply to: Re:Idiots err when they brag about Texas posted by Torog (Info) May 03, 2008 05:57:46 ET

Let me see if I have this straight.
The u.s. can do anything it wants, even including bombing whole neighborhoods, to anybody anywhere it wants, they only have to say "They could be terrorist, bombs away!"
Correct?
Warren Jeffs must certainly be a Christian terrorist, so will your beloved saviors now bomb texas?.

And now people who want more than one woman around or women who want more than one man around, what? Should be arrested and thrown in some secret prison for life, maybe even tortured?

What the hell happened to you? You are spending far too much time ridding in the back of the old freeper truck buddie.
The u.s. propaganda has been shoved so far up your ass it is starting to fester, watch out! don't move around too much, it has a danger of exploding.


Click Here to View 114348.jpg
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Re: Please get a life!
Torog
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Message #114349 posted by Torog (Info) May 03, 2008 08:21:40 ET
In Reply to: Please get a life! posted by hempity (Info) May 03, 2008 07:32:48 ET


Howdy hempity,

We work very hard to make sure that our targets are what they are,we do conduct spec-ops to determine such.

You ask:

"And now people who want more than one woman around or women who want more than one man around, what? Should be arrested and thrown in some secret prison for life, maybe even tortured?"

No sir-I'm saying that we should look into the possibility of child abuse occuring at the hands of any polygamist-be they mormon or muslim..the muslims should not be given a free pass on this situation,just because it's politically correct to excuse and apologize for the actions of muslims.

You state:

"Warren Jeffs must certainly be a Christian terrorist, so will your beloved saviors now bomb texas?."

As far as I know-Jeffs ain't killed anyone or called for his followers to strap on homicide bombs or fly aircrafts into buildings..?

How does he qualify as a terrorist ? I'd think it's best to call him a sexual predator,not a terrorist.

Have a good one ...




Re: Please get a life!
hempity
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Message #114353 posted by hempity (Info) May 03, 2008 14:05:17 ET
In Reply to: Re: Please get a life! posted by Torog (Info) May 03, 2008 08:21:40 ET

How thick can a person get?
They labeled the Doukhorbors (look them up, they are some of the most peaceful people on the planet) terrorist, Nelson Mandella is still on the books as a terrorist, wake up!

What is the road to hell paved with?

Your cps took away a guys kid, because at some sports game the guy inadvertently gave his kid an alcoholic beverage. The kid was taken to the doctor, doctor said no harm, but the self-righteous bastards took his kid anyway.

Torog,
nazi germany did not come about in a day, it took years of good intentioned people to follow their leaders with well meaning ideals.

YOU are doing the same thing, you are creating a hell on earth. with enemies all around you!

I won't tell you what kind of a day to have, have any kind you like. It might even become mandatory for you to 'have a good one'( according to the government) very soon.


Click Here to View 114353.jpg
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Re:Idiots err when they brag about Texas
forged registration

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Message #114354 posted by forged registration (Info) May 03, 2008 14:05:26 ET
In Reply to: Re:Idiots err when they brag about Texas posted by Torog (Info) May 03, 2008 05:57:46 ET

they built that whole compound since 2004? WOW! where does a mormon guy get enough money to support 5 wives and 15 kids in a mansion with a fleet of SUV's???

i'll concede the moral high ground to texas on this one...we have a mormon polygamist sect in BC that is connected to the one in texas, and it's been around a lot longer...it's none of my business how they pray, but trading/screwing kids for jesus is dangerously nutty

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bountiful,_British_Columbia




Christians are mostly child molsesters!
Libertarian Toker
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Message #114356 posted by Libertarian Toker (Info) May 03, 2008 18:46:18 ET
In Reply to: Re: Please get a life! posted by hempity (Info) May 03, 2008 14:05:17 ET

From the looks of it, christians are perverts who like sex with kids, and they like gay sex too. To hear torog tell it, it is the left that is deviant in their sexual behavour. Seems to me though, that the religious right is out to prove it is christians that are the most deviant. Sex in a bathroom stall in airport with other men? WTF? If you christian repos are the moral high ground, we are all fucked.

As he points his finger at muslims with to many wives, he forgets that the fuckers in texass fucking kids with to many wives are christians. Say, why is it illegal to have more then one wife anyway? It says in the bible that its ok, as god doesn't condem a lot of his followers for it. Who had 700 wives? Was it a muslim? Some people point their fingers at other religions and say bad when their own religion does the same thing. Truth is, some people just hate so much they don't notice that they do fucked up shit because of it. What is so bad about more then one wife anyway? Seems to me that living out of wedlock in a constent state of adultry is way worse then taking a few extra wives, as ones a sin, the other is not. God didn't seem to mind it back in the day, so why the big stink about it now? Oh yeah, christian peverts going after kids again. I can see where that is something that needs protected from, but I don't see a crime in having more then one wife if all partys are willing. Even more so if it is part of your religion, as religion takes a huge role in marrage. To limit, or to witch hunt and imprison, would be to oppress them religiously.

Toker




Re: Christians are mostly child molsesters!
hempity
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Message #114360 posted by hempity (Info) May 04, 2008 06:32:35 ET
In Reply to: Christians are mostly child molsesters! posted by Libertarian Toker (Info) May 03, 2008 18:46:18 ET

Isn't there a few million brides of Christ walking around?
Looks like they got Jesus for a few more "crimes".




Re:Idiots err when they brag about Texas
imnother

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Message #114380 posted by imnother (Info) May 05, 2008 11:08:45 ET
In Reply to: Re:Idiots err when they brag about Texas posted by imnother (Info) May 05, 2008 10:33:15 ET

BTW.....speaking of BALLS...THEY JUST OUTLAWED "TRUCK NUTZ" HERE IN FLORIDA....THE LITTLE OLD LADIES ARE NOT HAPPY SEEING NUTS ON TRUCKS.

Now what about tasteless bumper stickers? I saw one on the highway yesterday that said
Northern Aggression.....America's Holocaust! LOL



and a personalized liscence plate with "sane RN" I think I will apply for the "insane RN" ONE....lol

crazy what ya read on bumper stickers these days.




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