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ohh boyyy.. here it goes....

bum Premier Member Registered on Mar-04-2001 More User Info Message #174482 posted by bum (Info) April 25, 2008 22:37:43 ET my new passport has an RFID chip in it. the requirements that could be placed on us in the future rearding identification and such put way too much power in the hands of a government that i don't necessarily trust to act in the interest of it's people. i don't know how much longer i'm going to be living in the US. this place is getting scarier and scarier. i'll probably move to south america.

Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes....

robbuzz Registered on Nov-14-2002 More User Info Message #174483 posted by robbuzz (Info) April 26, 2008 00:14:48 ET In Reply to: ohh boyyy.. here it goes.... posted by bum (Info) April 25, 2008 22:37:43 ET what is a rfid chip I was planning on getting a passport myself

Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes....

bum Premier Member Registered on Mar-04-2001 More User Info Message #174485 posted by bum (Info) April 26, 2008 02:12:16 ET In Reply to: Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes.... posted by robbuzz (Info) April 26, 2008 00:14:48 ET http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RFID radio frequency identification i'm sure you've seen them before. they store information that can be read with an RF reader... the RFID tag in the passport stores all the passport info that's printed along with your picture, but the important thing is, it transmit this data through a radio frequency.

Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes....

ukchucktown Premier Member Registered on Feb-06-2002 More User Info Message #174489 posted by ukchucktown (Info) April 26, 2008 11:27:01 ET In Reply to: ohh boyyy.. here it goes.... posted by bum (Info) April 25, 2008 22:37:43 ET I wouldn't worry too much about an RFID chip in your passport. You have to pass within a few feet of a reader and most data on RFID chips is encrypted. It's not as if they can track you walking around town. It's a lot easier to track a person with an active cell phone than it is an RFID chip. Honestly, if I can get through customs faster, I welcome the technology. All the big brother talk from the left is about as ridiculous as the war on terror talk from the right. Peace, UK

Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes....

forged registration Registered on Dec-17-2005 More User Info Message #174491 posted by forged registration (Info) April 26, 2008 12:25:51 ET In Reply to: Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes.... posted by ukchucktown (Info) April 26, 2008 11:27:01 ET i would be nervous about broadcasting my personal passport information to the general vicinity, even if it is encrypted is there some kind of container that interferes with the radio signal until you need it? i don't know how it will make anything quicker than a bar code inside the passport...customs still needs to look at your face to see if it matches the passport picture, and scowl at you to see if you perspire, and ask you if you have any fresh fruit or bombs in your luggage

Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes....

bum Premier Member Registered on Mar-04-2001 More User Info Message #174492 posted by bum (Info) April 26, 2008 12:53:23 ET In Reply to: Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes.... posted by ukchucktown (Info) April 26, 2008 11:27:01 ET i'm mostly concerned with its implications for the future. the higher powered the reader is, the farther away it can read it... and crypto can be broken-- especially since it's limited by the relatively small space available on an RF tag. do you know about the real ID act? "Arkansas, Colorado, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Michigan, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Washington have joined Maine and Utah in passing legislation opposing Real ID." "Similar resolutions are pending in Alaska, Arizona, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Mexico, New York, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Washington, D.C., West Virginia, Wisconsin and Wyoming." you wonder how it got in in the first place... oh! it was snuck in. the more ID requirements are in place, the more our privacy can be breached or our rights be taken.

Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes....

bum Premier Member Registered on Mar-04-2001 More User Info Message #174493 posted by bum (Info) April 26, 2008 12:54:02 ET In Reply to: Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes.... posted by ukchucktown (Info) April 26, 2008 11:27:01 ET can't you see right through this bullshit? WASHINGTON — A massive database that the government will use to monitor every purchase made by every American citizen is a necessary tool in the war on terror, the Pentagon said Wednesday. Edward Aldridge, undersecretary of Acquisitions and Technology, told reporters that the Pentagon is developing a prototype database to seek "patterns indicative of terrorist activity." Aldridge said the database would collect and use software to analyze consumer purchases in hopes of catching terrorists before it's too late. "The bottom line is this is an important research project to determine the feasibility of using certain transactions and events to discover and respond to terrorists before they act," he said.

Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes....

bum Premier Member Registered on Mar-04-2001 More User Info Message #174495 posted by bum (Info) April 26, 2008 13:20:47 ET In Reply to: Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes.... posted by bum (Info) April 26, 2008 12:54:02 ET you shrug now but i swear to god, shit's gonna get creepy man. fascism is capitalism in decay............

Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes....

ukchucktown Premier Member Registered on Feb-06-2002 More User Info Message #174498 posted by ukchucktown (Info) April 26, 2008 15:39:34 ET In Reply to: Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes.... posted by bum (Info) April 26, 2008 12:53:23 ET You guys are free to be paranoid if you like. Like I said, a cell phone will get you caught faster than a RRID chip. I'm not worried. The government already knows all my dark secrets anyway thanks to my top secret security clearance. As for encryption being broken, show me documented proof that a 2048 or 4096 bit bit key has ever been cracked. The only way to crack is brute force described below and it's simply not feasible with today's technology. As technology advances, key sizes will increase. Even if a cipher is unbreakable by exploiting structural weaknesses in the algorithm, it is possible to run through the entire space of keys in what is known as a brute force attack. Since longer keys require more work to brute force search, a long enough key will require more work than is feasible. Thus, length of the key is important in resisting this type of attack. With a key of length n bits, there are 2n possible keys. This number grows extremely rapidly as n increases. Moore's law suggests that computing power doubles roughly every 18 months, but even this doubling effect leaves the key lengths currently considered acceptable well out of reach. The large number of operations (2128) required to try all possible 128-bit keys will be out of reach for all of humankind's conventional computing power for the foreseeable future. Peace, UK

Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes....

ukchucktown Premier Member Registered on Feb-06-2002 More User Info Message #174500 posted by ukchucktown (Info) April 26, 2008 15:57:02 ET In Reply to: Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes.... posted by ukchucktown (Info) April 26, 2008 15:39:34 ET "the higher powered the reader is, the farther away it can read it... and crypto can be broken-- especially since it's limited by the relatively small space available on an RF tag." Well, the power of the reader has nothing to do with it. It's a radio signal. What you need is a powerful antenna. If you have a 70 foot antenna you might be able to capture the radio signal from afar but that would not be easy to hide. Current RFID chips can support up to 2K of data which is more than enough space for encryption. Personally, I'd be more worried about the hackers than the government. Somebody already demonstrated back in '06 at Defcon in Las Vegas how to clone the RFID passports. I love it. I'm not a fan of RFID in passports but I'm not going to lose any sleep. http://www.technewsworld.com/story/52270.html?welcome=1209239321 Peace, UK

Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes....

bum Premier Member Registered on Mar-04-2001 More User Info Message #174501 posted by bum (Info) April 26, 2008 16:06:51 ET In Reply to: Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes.... posted by ukchucktown (Info) April 26, 2008 15:39:34 ET "Like I said, a cell phone will get you caught faster than a RRID chip." that's only one aspect. i completely agree with you on that point. "I'm not worried. The government already knows all my dark secrets anyway thanks to my top secret security clearance." we need to maintain privacy to shield us from a corrupt government. it is COMPLETELY inappropriate for the government to track all of americans purchases.. ESPECIALLY in light of the power of corporations and their relationship to the government. "As for encryption being broken, show me documented proof that a 2048 or 4096 bit bit key has ever been cracked. The only way to crack is brute force described below and it's simply not feasible with today's technology. As technology advances, key sizes will increase." UK e-passports are already cracked (it took 48 hours). i know 2048 or 4096 isn't feasible to crack with bruteforce.. but they're not used. but i agree, RF security will get better in the future of course... but still i don't think that's the main problem here. even if all of the information is safe, it's the ID standards and information tracking we're setting here.

Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes....

bum Premier Member Registered on Mar-04-2001 More User Info Message #174502 posted by bum (Info) April 26, 2008 16:11:38 ET In Reply to: Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes.... posted by ukchucktown (Info) April 26, 2008 15:57:02 ET "It's a radio signal. What you need is a powerful antenna. " that's what i'm saying.. the RF chip is powered by the signal that's sent to it. higher power reader = higher powered RF = longer distance. it's of course limited though by how far the RF tag can transmit... " I'd be more worried about the hackers than the government." the hackers aren't the ones to worry about.. i think they're for the most part the good guys. it's the thieves that are the ones to watch.. (and surely some hackers are thieves)

Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes....

ukchucktown Premier Member Registered on Feb-06-2002 More User Info Message #174504 posted by ukchucktown (Info) April 26, 2008 16:19:17 ET In Reply to: Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes.... posted by bum (Info) April 26, 2008 16:06:51 ET You make some valid points, but it's still too early to be concerned. Thankfully I renewed my passport before RFID so I'm good for a long time. I agree the RFID passports were rolled out too soon. As for tracking, the government already tracks travel of Americans. I was amazed what they found out about me when I applied for my clearance. If they want to know, they can find out pretty easily. Tracking purchases of every American is not realistic but it sounds good in theory. I can only imagine the size of the database required for such an effort let alone trying to search it for information. If you are truly worried, pay cash for those questionable purchases, LOL. Peace, UK

Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes....

bum Premier Member Registered on Mar-04-2001 More User Info Message #174505 posted by bum (Info) April 26, 2008 16:37:25 ET In Reply to: Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes.... posted by ukchucktown (Info) April 26, 2008 16:19:17 ET i'm curious uk, can you share with us the stuff they uncovered??? "If you are truly worried, pay cash for those questionable purchases" that is if we don't completely digitise money. i don't really know about that stuff though but it sounds like it's certainly a possiblity, especially with RFID.

Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes....

ukchucktown Premier Member Registered on Feb-06-2002 More User Info Message #174506 posted by ukchucktown (Info) April 26, 2008 16:40:01 ET In Reply to: Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes.... posted by bum (Info) April 26, 2008 16:11:38 ET "that's what i'm saying.. the RF chip is powered by the signal that's sent to it. higher power reader = higher powered RF = longer distance. it's of course limited though by how far the RF tag can transmit..." True, but passive tags have practical read distances up to a few meters. Also, some newer chips have built-in firewalls and communication encryption. I agree, RFID in passports is a poor use of the technology, but it's here to stay I'm afraid. Peace, UK

Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes....

ukchucktown Premier Member Registered on Feb-06-2002 More User Info Message #174507 posted by ukchucktown (Info) April 26, 2008 16:46:54 ET In Reply to: Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes.... posted by bum (Info) April 26, 2008 16:37:25 ET Sorry Bum, I can't talk about my clearance or the work I've done for the government. It's top secret, LOL. I'm not doing top secret work currently but that can always change since I'm in consulting. Let me just say it was not a pleasant experience. I did manage to dodge the lie detector test though. Peace, UK

Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes....

* del... * Board Moderator Premier Member Registered on Feb-22-2000 More User Info Message #174509 posted by del... (Info) April 26, 2008 17:02:52 ET In Reply to: Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes.... posted by bum (Info) April 26, 2008 16:11:38 ET i would think a strong magnet would negate any electronics in it...eh? like how they can fuckup a credit card...?

Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes....

bum Premier Member Registered on Mar-04-2001 More User Info Message #174511 posted by bum (Info) April 26, 2008 17:23:55 ET In Reply to: Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes.... posted by ukchucktown (Info) April 26, 2008 16:40:01 ET before they added the metal sheet protector in the us passports, the tag was readable up to 33 ft (thank god hackers are here.. gov't claimed it was 10CM!!!) i don't think a magnet is feasible-- i'm not sure why but it hasn't come up as a viable option for disabling. looks like the best method is a hammer-- but tampering with passport could = 25 years in prison.

Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes....

ukchucktown Premier Member Registered on Feb-06-2002 More User Info Message #174515 posted by ukchucktown (Info) April 26, 2008 18:30:39 ET In Reply to: Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes.... posted by bum (Info) April 26, 2008 17:23:55 ET it's never a good idea to trust government claims. Didn't they also say inflation was under control and there's no recession. I've watched my food budget increase by 25 percent and gas increase by 40 cents in the last 6 weeks. Who are they trying to fool? Oh, that's right, you and me. I don't think a magnet would do the trick. Credit cards have a magnetic strip, RFID chips do not. Peace, UK

Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes....

infertile Registered on Jan-17-2008 More User Info Message #174528 posted by infertile (Info) April 28, 2008 11:56:53 ET In Reply to: Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes.... posted by ukchucktown (Info) April 26, 2008 18:30:39 ET I read that most new credit cards will also contain a broadcasting chip. The solution appears to be aluminum foil. Wrap em up so no signal gets out except when you want it to (by taking it out). There are some higher priced metal lined wallets on the market now too to solve the same issue, but being a cheapie....

Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes....

m1ndv1c3p Registered on Nov-23-2006 More User Info Message #174557 posted by m1ndv1c3p (Info) April 30, 2008 00:12:10 ET In Reply to: Re: ohh boyyy.. here it goes.... posted by infertile (Info) April 28, 2008 11:56:53 ET microwave it :) seriously.

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